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Topic: Talkies submits objection to Fox redevelopment plans

Talkies submits objection to Fox redevelopment plans
31 Oct 2017 16:54 #3291

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Presumably Heineken will still be carrying the acquisition cost on balance sheet somehow therefore land value remains a relevant development appraisal input. According to Lang Reg, Blue Star (persumably Heine subsidiary?) took the freehold title in 2009.

Where would extra room come from for a bigger pub and bigger function room? Reduced housing delivery?

Pubs can be turned around by skilled operators - look at the Prince down near Bounds Green Road. Fantastic boozer, the kind PG is screaming for.

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Talkies submits objection to Fox redevelopment plans
31 Oct 2017 17:53 #3292

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David Eden wrote: Presumably Heineken will still be carrying the acquisition cost on balance sheet somehow therefore land value remains a relevant development appraisal input. According to Lang Reg, Blue Star (persumably Heine subsidiary?) took the freehold title in 2009.


The Fox was part of the Scottish & Newcastle estate. In 2008 S&N was bought by Heineken and Carlsberg, who then divided its assets among them, Heineken getting the UK parts, including the pubs. The managed pubs, such as the Fox, were run by the Scottish & Newcastle Pub Company, which was renamed Star Pubs & Bars in 2012. (Star because a star was the logo of the Newcastle brewery, as in Newcastle Brown.) So the Fox will just have been one small element in a large package acquired by Heineken in 2008. How much the land is worth now is irrelevant to the question of whether or not Heineken will make a profit from the redevelopment.

David Eden wrote: Where would extra room come from for a bigger pub and bigger function room? Reduced housing delivery?


It would be the area to the left of the entrance as you go in from Green Lanes. Instead of being turned into a shop, it could stay part of the pub.

David Eden wrote: Pubs can be turned around by skilled operators - look at the Prince down near Bounds Green Road. Fantastic boozer, the kind PG is screaming for.


I agree, especially when there's so little competition. I doubt whether they have a Prince-like pub in mind though. The Prince is more of a drinking pub, I think they're planning a dining pub.

It's good to see the Prince apparently doing well after being in the doldrums for so long - but a great pity that they got rid of its best feature - the lovely oak panelled side room. They stripped out all the panelling and installed a microbrewery.

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Talkies submits objection to Fox redevelopment plans
31 Oct 2017 23:00 #3293

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Talkies Community Cinema is a not for profit organisation, run by volunteers aimed to bring together people in a social setting to meet each other and enjoy film. We have used the Fox regularly for five years. Details of how we use the ticket income is published on our website.
The Fox function room can seat 200 - for example at the Comedy club which took place there every month until the threat of closure meant they re-sited to Southgate. The room can also be used for parties which will take large numbers and dance events, which use the dance floor.
Talkies maximum at the Fox is 135 which is reached when we screen our short film commissions for young film makers each year. For most events we would have an audience of about 100 - recent 'Cabaret' was capped at 110 because of bar constraints but could have been more.
In contrast the designs presented by the developers show 145 chair spaces but take no account of distance from a screen, use of a stage or need for a performance space at the front. We believe that a more sensible number for such a space would be 80.
The Fox is an important venue for us, but is also the only such venue at the heart of Palmers Green, hence its status as an "Asset of Community Value"(ACV) - the first in Enfield.
To be clear- we have always recognised the importance of refurbishing The Fox as a useful addition to the Palmers Green Food and Drink offer. Also we understand that there will have to be some commercial arrangement from the management of the renewed Fox facility. What we have not yet had though is a clear commitment from the developers that a 'new ACV' will be both accessible and affordable for not-for-profit organisations similar to Talkies.
We also believe that a better designed space will bring commercial benefits to the developers. If only we could see more commitment to the community from the developers we may feel differently.
Despite continuous discussions over a long period we have had no such commitments.

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Talkies submits objection to Fox redevelopment plans
02 Nov 2017 14:10 #3304

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"
We wanted to provide some clarification on the use and capacity of the existing function room within The Fox. The existing function room has a licensed maximum capacity of 160 persons and the landlord Joe Murray advises us that there are 120 chairs available for use in the function room.

As can be seen from the plan provided, the new flexible and better integrated function space proposed within The ‘new’ Fox can accommodate up to 146 persons in theatre layout. However, adopting a 3m screen set back dimension and allowing space for a projector, this gives a capacity of 120 in cinema layout (with the blue seats indicated on the plan removed). "

https://postimg.org/image/1iwf4c73jf/

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Talkies submits objection to Fox redevelopment plans
02 Nov 2017 14:12 #3305

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Ergo, perfectly fit for purpose.

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Talkies submits objection to Fox redevelopment plans
02 Nov 2017 15:06 #3307

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Thank you for this work David.

Can I just clarify who the 'we' is in your response - are you part of the design team?

I can confirm that there were 135 chairs in April earlier this year and when we capped our audience at 110 just recently there were plenty spare chairs in the storage room.

The claim of 145 chairs in the function room is quite misleading, suggesting that the revised space is larger that the existing space, patently not the case. The current space has a stage for performance - used previously by the Comedy Club which had very healthy audiences. Dance events have a clear floor but with tables around the sides. Private parties with tables can seat 80 people with room for access.

What would be useful perhaps is to overlay floor plans of the current function room and the proposed design which could help to envisage the comparative layout of each.

Even if this were all perfectly designed, there still remains a lack of any undertaking that the space will be available for not-for-profit community organisations at an affordable rate.

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Talkies submits objection to Fox redevelopment plans
02 Nov 2017 16:25 #3308

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Hi David. I messed up the quotes a bit, was taken from the Fox consultation facebook page which the developers are using to engage with people I guess they think are missed by other channels. Therefore I think 'we' will mean the developers, though it could mean one of their advisors, am not really sure.

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