Forum topic: Plans for Fox Lane low-traffic neighbourhood published
Plans for Fox Lane low-traffic neighbourhood published
Jenny Perkins
12 Nov 2019 18:49 #4888
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I am a Southgate resident, living near Meadway. I already use public transport for a large percentage of my travel. Currently, that involves walking along High Street to the tube, breathing in fumes from queues of traffic that are often queuing from Southgate Circus to Blagdens Close/The Close because of significant congestion on Southgate Circus, usually caused by one or more car parking badly on Chase Side and snarling the whole thing up.
I do use my car locally to transport my disabled husband, and we do use the Meadway cut-through, so as to keep the overall journey distance down and to avoid causing unnecessary pollution by idling in the queues on High Street, trying to get to Southgate Circus. I also walk along Meadway when going to the park on my own when my husband is too ill to get out.
If you really want to reduce pollution, you will take action on congestion in Southgate Circus/High Street by enforcing legal parking effectively on Chase Side. The problem in the Fox Lane area is not really pollution. It is a lovely, leafy area and when I walk there, I never have to breathe in car fumes in the way that I regularly do on High Street.
Forget this idea, which will only increase overall pollution in the local area and do what is actually needed in the Fox Lane area, i.e. traffic calming and speed bumps. The problem is not pollution but excessive speed. This can adequately be solved by well thought through traffic calming.
I do use my car locally to transport my disabled husband, and we do use the Meadway cut-through, so as to keep the overall journey distance down and to avoid causing unnecessary pollution by idling in the queues on High Street, trying to get to Southgate Circus. I also walk along Meadway when going to the park on my own when my husband is too ill to get out.
If you really want to reduce pollution, you will take action on congestion in Southgate Circus/High Street by enforcing legal parking effectively on Chase Side. The problem in the Fox Lane area is not really pollution. It is a lovely, leafy area and when I walk there, I never have to breathe in car fumes in the way that I regularly do on High Street.
Forget this idea, which will only increase overall pollution in the local area and do what is actually needed in the Fox Lane area, i.e. traffic calming and speed bumps. The problem is not pollution but excessive speed. This can adequately be solved by well thought through traffic calming.
Plans for Fox Lane low-traffic neighbourhood published
Adrian Day
12 Nov 2019 18:51 #4889
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Everyone's journey won't be made longer - not everyone drives . In fact roughly half the population of Enfield do not drive. People who walk and cycle will have easier journeys as there'll be less rat-running vehicles - an average of 2947 vehicles a day down Old Park Road for example. Walkers will be able to cross more easily - especially at the ends of roads and more people will be encouraged to walk or cycle so fewer car journeys, less pollution, less noise and less danger. The plan is for Enfield to have lots more LTNs like this - which is great.
Plans for Fox Lane low-traffic neighbourhood published
Adrian Day
12 Nov 2019 18:56 #4890
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The problem is manifold - excessive speed, pollution, noise and danger - 2947 rat running vehicles down Old Park Road on average every day just now. 20 mph won't stop the rat runners. The proposed plan will address these issues - and reduce vehicle usage as people realise that for many short journeys walking and cycling is quicker and easier. Every road remains accessible and open - you just can't rat run.
Plans for Fox Lane low-traffic neighbourhood published
Neil Littman
12 Nov 2019 19:03 #4892
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Probably too late to say this but council officers have been told not to be present at the meeting to discuss the low traffic scheme due to purdah being in operation due to the upcoming election. This information was supplied by Cllr Dinah Barry.
Plans for Fox Lane low-traffic neighbourhood published
Colin Younger
12 Nov 2019 19:28 #4893
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This is a bit of an essay, on the subject “reflections on quieter neighbourhoods”.
There seems to me to be two issues about traffic in the Lakes Estate, speeds and volume.
Speed could be dealt with by various means, for example speed humps or cushions. This might reduce volume, but would probably not have a significant effect. (Are there any figures on speed/volume following the installation of speed humps on Fox Lane? Will these be removed under the latest scheme?)
So far two other measures have been tried. The one still in place are the raised cross-overs along Aldermans Hill. I can’t see how anyone could believe that these would have any effect on speed or volume of traffic though they do signal the priority for pedestrians. This might be thought an expensive solution to that problem. (Will these be removed if roads are closed off?)
The much maligned planters might have had an effect on volumes, but since only half the planned numbers were deployed I don’t accept that the “experiment” could be showed to have failed. If this is a 6 month trial the closure structures must be capable of being removed. I wonder whether the new road obstacles are going to be planters reborn.
As to the new scheme, it will certainly cut rat running and to that extent peak volumes. However, given the extent of car ownership in the estate, speed could still be a problem, perhaps exacerbated by attempts to make up for time lost by navigating the reduced entry/exit routes.
I’m not convinced about the direct comparison with Walthamstow and Blackhorse areas. As I understand it, they have a much lower car ownership, and perhaps crucially have schools within their areas. This automatically reduces local traffic levels. Like it or not residents with children will still need to leave the area by car and at peak times the two exits will be likely to be jammed.
I wonder whether a slight modification would make life easier for residents without significantly increasing through volumes. That is by replacing the Fox Lane barrier by a road narrowing restriction. Keeping the road humps would continue (?) to help reduce speeds. Perhaps a few more would help.
A minor matter has the effect of the closures on waste collection been factored in? Unless I’ve misunderstand it, won’t it double the journeys, as they will need to drive in and reverse out of each road, as will the increasing number of delivery vehicles.
However, if the problems faced by residents in Old Park Road, Grovelands and Amberley Roads are to be dealt with, it can’t be done without an impact on other residents.
Lots to mull over.
Comments on the proposals are open until the weekend at letstalk.enfield.gov.uk/foxlaneQN
NB This is not the statutory consultation which will be run next year as I understand it.
There seems to me to be two issues about traffic in the Lakes Estate, speeds and volume.
Speed could be dealt with by various means, for example speed humps or cushions. This might reduce volume, but would probably not have a significant effect. (Are there any figures on speed/volume following the installation of speed humps on Fox Lane? Will these be removed under the latest scheme?)
So far two other measures have been tried. The one still in place are the raised cross-overs along Aldermans Hill. I can’t see how anyone could believe that these would have any effect on speed or volume of traffic though they do signal the priority for pedestrians. This might be thought an expensive solution to that problem. (Will these be removed if roads are closed off?)
The much maligned planters might have had an effect on volumes, but since only half the planned numbers were deployed I don’t accept that the “experiment” could be showed to have failed. If this is a 6 month trial the closure structures must be capable of being removed. I wonder whether the new road obstacles are going to be planters reborn.
As to the new scheme, it will certainly cut rat running and to that extent peak volumes. However, given the extent of car ownership in the estate, speed could still be a problem, perhaps exacerbated by attempts to make up for time lost by navigating the reduced entry/exit routes.
I’m not convinced about the direct comparison with Walthamstow and Blackhorse areas. As I understand it, they have a much lower car ownership, and perhaps crucially have schools within their areas. This automatically reduces local traffic levels. Like it or not residents with children will still need to leave the area by car and at peak times the two exits will be likely to be jammed.
I wonder whether a slight modification would make life easier for residents without significantly increasing through volumes. That is by replacing the Fox Lane barrier by a road narrowing restriction. Keeping the road humps would continue (?) to help reduce speeds. Perhaps a few more would help.
A minor matter has the effect of the closures on waste collection been factored in? Unless I’ve misunderstand it, won’t it double the journeys, as they will need to drive in and reverse out of each road, as will the increasing number of delivery vehicles.
However, if the problems faced by residents in Old Park Road, Grovelands and Amberley Roads are to be dealt with, it can’t be done without an impact on other residents.
Lots to mull over.
Comments on the proposals are open until the weekend at letstalk.enfield.gov.uk/foxlaneQN
NB This is not the statutory consultation which will be run next year as I understand it.
Plans for Fox Lane low-traffic neighbourhood published
George Satanas
12 Nov 2019 21:46 #4894
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I feel residents would be better served locating the barriers in the centre of each Road rather than at the end of each.
Ideally we'd have automated barriers operaple only by the residents of each Road.
For example, an automated barrier on The Mall could be on accessed by The Mall residents only.; traffic reduced with no disruption to residents. Too expensive? Would residents pay for a small fee for the pleasure of safer, quieter and cleaner roads?
Ideally we'd have automated barriers operaple only by the residents of each Road.
For example, an automated barrier on The Mall could be on accessed by The Mall residents only.; traffic reduced with no disruption to residents. Too expensive? Would residents pay for a small fee for the pleasure of safer, quieter and cleaner roads?
Plans for Fox Lane low-traffic neighbourhood published
wesley ashwell
13 Nov 2019 12:28 #4895
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I agree, largely, with David Berkovich's comments. I live on Cranley Gardens and have cause to pay frequent visits to Aldermans Pharmacy. At the moment it is a simple journey via Fox lane and Old Park Road, but the Council's loony plan(where do they get them from?) will require me to go via Fox lane, Bourne Hill, Southgate roundabout,(which will be even busier and therefore worse to negotiate than it is now,) High Street and Aldermans Hill - and that's just the journey there!
Additionally, in the cause of quieter streets and less pollution, why does the Council - in collaboration with the bus company - not make the W9 route only ONE WAY along Cranley Gardens? I do not underate the value of this amenity, but for too long this road has borne the brunt of three buses an hour IN BOTH DIRECTIONS, which frequently results in chaotic traffic congestion problems.
Additionally, in the cause of quieter streets and less pollution, why does the Council - in collaboration with the bus company - not make the W9 route only ONE WAY along Cranley Gardens? I do not underate the value of this amenity, but for too long this road has borne the brunt of three buses an hour IN BOTH DIRECTIONS, which frequently results in chaotic traffic congestion problems.
Plans for Fox Lane low-traffic neighbourhood published
Adrian Day
13 Nov 2019 16:06 #4896
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It will still be a simple journey via Fox Lane and Old Park Road but by foot or bike (and a journey that will be a lot safer using these modes within the LTN).
Three buses an hour carrying several people is a lot less polluting than the hundreds of cars that use it each day and the nearly 7000 vehicles a day that cut through Fox Lane. Think if every bus passenger drove? If we are to address climate change, obesity, pollution related illnesses and road deaths/injuries we need more people (those that are able) making the short journey you describe by foot, bike or public transport.
Three buses an hour carrying several people is a lot less polluting than the hundreds of cars that use it each day and the nearly 7000 vehicles a day that cut through Fox Lane. Think if every bus passenger drove? If we are to address climate change, obesity, pollution related illnesses and road deaths/injuries we need more people (those that are able) making the short journey you describe by foot, bike or public transport.
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