Share this article share on facebook icon share on twitter icon

To go to the full forum thread, click on its title.

    • A festival too far?
    • There’s a general comparison of sorts () of Broomfield Park’s use for the PG Festival (and other family events in large public spaces) and the beerfest. Looking specifically at the PGF, one is a volunteer run, non-profit, family friendly extravaganza, set up by this community for this community, with free access to all, built up over time, which sets up and puts away all infrastructure within the same day - with no park damage - and can table an excellent track record (and risk plan). The other charges for entry, is not available to a large segment of the population, is self-evidently profit driven and seeks to bus non-PG residents into a family park basically to get bladdered. Chalk and cheese and a bit of horses for courses in my mind.
    • In Planning and Development / Palmers Green Town Centre
    • Author Karl Brown
    • 11 Aug 2022 16:38
    • A festival too far?
    • Re the comments about age profiles – that is an interesting issue. I think it is a given that most people (there are exceptions such as young councillors) only take an interest in local affairs due to having more time, different responsibilities etc. when they are above a certain age. I didn't have any involvement in anything like that until I moved to Enfield at the age of 59. But another factor, is whether it is the opinion of residents that influences these decisions or it is about the target audience for the event as they could be both and the same. According to the latest stats the average age of people in Enfield is 39.3 yrs. My guess is that many of those who want to attend are under 40. Trouble is,nobody has the time to do a survey of the under 40's in the borough to find out what they think but based simply on the council's track record with large scale events (such as those at Trent Park) I wouldn't touch the Oktoberfest with a bargepole.
    • In Planning and Development / Palmers Green Town Centre
    • Author Neil Littman
    • 11 Aug 2022 12:14
    • A festival too far?
    • First a disclaimer: I do not live in Palmers Green and would be unaffected by any "disorder" or ASB resulting from Oktoberfest. So "obvs" anything I say can be discounted on that basis. However (you sensed that coming) after long cogitation about the OktoberFest, I think it is a shame to dismiss it out of hand - as an idea. This is completely separate from whether it is/would have been organised properly with appropriate security, loos, extra transport &c. Although largely brilliantly maintained by dedicated teams of volunteers, Broomfield Park remains a public park and it should always be a positive notion to arrange large-scale events there - such as the Palmers Green Festival or the funfairs. Opening up the Park as a leisure venue to a large number of people who may never have visited it before leads to at least the possibility of more involvement in its care. Naturally if an event like OktoberFest were held and it proved highly troublesome (however judged), there will be a pile-in from those who campaigned against it, but in the real world sometimes things have to be given a chance. It is only by trying something that the actual results, positive and negative, can be assessed...
    • In Planning and Development / Palmers Green Town Centre
    • Author Geoffrey Kemball-Cook
    • 11 Aug 2022 09:17
    • A festival too far?
    • Thank you. Much better articulated than me. While I disagree with Darren's view that objections to this particular event are greatly exaggerated (well, I would do, wouldn't I ? - I'm 40 + 31 years old), I think his point about people's ages is a good one, and not just on Palmers Green Community. Older people are over represented on residents' associations and other "civic sector" groups - which is inevitable, because younger people have their hands full looking after kids and trying to earn a living, or if they're not yet at that stage they're busy with their social lives. But it's obviously important to think about how things impact on them, and on kids too, as they're the people who'll be around in the future living with the consequences of decisions made now. I sympathise with the view that people of my generation, the baby boomers, are in many ways guilty of denying younger people the things that we had. We grew up at a time when kids were free to roam without being constantly chaperoned, at school we weren't under such pressure to get A grades, then we enjoyed completely free university and college education, which we finished at a time when there were plenty of jobs. A...
    • In Planning and Development / Palmers Green Town Centre
    • Author Darren Edgar
    • 11 Aug 2022 09:05
    • A festival too far?
    • Support for the skate park may not be confined to the young, but opposition is certainly confined to the old. As for this event, it is not an evening do? Under 12s aren't playing on the swings at 9pm (I take my 2 year old there often but never after 5pm...). The event is aimed at 18-40, I'd say, and those aren't the voices of opposition. Whilst this is another example of poor Enfield Council planning & consultation, the event looked to be great fun and I'd already started inviting friends down to it. The issue with consultation though, and the over-representation of certain demographics, is unlike YouGov that are statistical experts that properly sort, rank and weight their data, inevitably any basic local government consultation will get over-run by old people complaining against something as that's what's seen to be the purpose of consultation. Silent voices of support won't get heard.
    • In Planning and Development / Palmers Green Town Centre
    • Author Darren Edgar
    • 11 Aug 2022 09:04
    • A festival too far?
    • Whilst I agree that it is worth looking at age related attitudes and objections in this case I don't think this does create undue influence. What is proposed is an event that is likely to overwhelme facilities. Also worth pointing out that a demographic whose park use could suffer badly are the under 12s and their playground. An absent voice on this. The older demographic are not uniformly fun police. Support for the skate park proposal, for example, is not confined to the young.
    • In Planning and Development / Palmers Green Town Centre
    • Author Nicola Scott
    • 11 Aug 2022 07:27
    • Environmental vandalism in Green Lanes
    • The photo above (from Google Maps) shows the 11 trees that the McDonalds owner chopped down. When applying for planning permission he ticked a box saying there were no trees on the site that might be important as part of the local landscape character. I think most people would beg to differ! It seems that in 2019 McDonalds were planning to increase public visibility of restaurants by removing trees and foliage that could hide their signage. For more information see realmedia.press/mcdonalds-tree-massacre/
    • In Other Subjects / Environmental Issues
    • Author PGC Webmaster
    • 10 Aug 2022 16:57
    • A festival too far?
    • Unless you've seen something that I haven't, this isn't quite right. , the council has asked the organisers to withdraw their application and Palmers Green councillor Chris James has said she's "confident" that it won't happen even if the organisers don't withdraw. I'd started writing my own report when the Dispatch pipped me to the post (I'm still doing some checking before publishing it). I haven't seen anything about a list of conditions that the organisers can't satisfy. My information suggests that the council gave the go-ahead months ago, but have now changed their mind because of complaints. Correction: Looking again at Chris James' wording, I think that Darren's summary above is fine - though it's unclear whether the council are actually able at this late stage to "withdraw permission". See my new report at www.pgweb.uk/planning-all-subjects/pg-town-centre-improvements/3416-councillor-i-am-confident-that-oktoberfest-will-not-be-going-ahead.
    • In Planning and Development / Palmers Green Town Centre
    • Author PGC Webmaster
    • 08 Aug 2022 18:54
    • A festival too far?
    • While I disagree with Darren's view that objections to this particular event are greatly exaggerated (well, I would do, wouldn't I ? - I'm 40 + 31 years old), I think his point about people's ages is a good one, and not just on Palmers Green Community. Older people are over represented on residents' associations and other "civic sector" groups - which is inevitable, because younger people have their hands full looking after kids and trying to earn a living, or if they're not yet at that stage they're busy with their social lives. But it's obviously important to think about how things impact on them, and on kids too, as they're the people who'll be around in the future living with the consequences of decisions made now. I sympathise with the view that people of my generation, the baby boomers, are in many ways guilty of denying younger people the things that we had. We grew up at a time when kids were free to roam without being constantly chaperoned, at school we weren't under such pressure to get A grades, then we enjoyed completely free university and college education, which we finished at a time when there were plenty of jobs. A much higher proportion of jobs at that time...
    • In Planning and Development / Palmers Green Town Centre
    • Author Basil Clarke
    • 08 Aug 2022 18:40
    • A festival too far?
    • One of the Arnos Grove ward councillors, Paul Pratt, has arranged a meeting with residents to discuss the Oktoberfest event. As your Councillors in Arnos Grove, we have received a number of emails and phone calls objecting to the Oktoberfest event. This has been approved without consultation with local residents which is unacceptable. Oktoberfest is without a license to sell alcohol in Broomfield Park. Adrian and I fully intend on objecting to their application which must be submitted prior to the 24th August. To ensure your views are properly represented, we will be holding a Residents Meeting at the Civic Centre on Thursday 11th August at 7pm. In order to attend, please email emailProtector.addCloakedMailto("ep_a14ccb1f", 1); using the subject title 'Oktoberfest Residents Meeting'. Please include your name and residential address. This meeting is open only to residents of Arnos Grove ward and chairs of residents' and community groups in neighbouring wards (please email Cllr Pratt and let him know which group you represent and what your position in it is).
    • In Planning and Development / Palmers Green Town Centre
    • Author PGC Webmaster
    • 03 Aug 2022 20:13
    • A festival too far?
    • Friends of Broomfield Park have sent the following message to everyone on their email distribution list: NOT OK FoBP does not support the proposal to bring a giant beer tent seating 2000 people to the park in October. thelondonoktoberfest.com. We believe that the scale and its alcohol-driven nature presents high risks to the Palmers Green and is likely to create major damage to the park. Four sittings over an October weekend will see 8000 people spilling out in Palmers Green after a boozefest. Where drink is involved, the police recognise that behaviour can ‘escalate into aggressive, violent or lewd behaviour, such as intimidation or verbal abuse of passers-by, fighting or urinating in public. All of which are offences.’ We are very angry with Enfield Council at allowing this proposal to proceed to the licensing stage without any public consultation. Read the FoBP objections here bit.ly/3Bob5nP You may have other concerns.... Send your personal representations to emailProtector.addCloakedMailto("ep_57a78185", 0); making sure that you refer to the licensing objectives: • the prevention of crime and disorder: • public safety: • the prevention of public nuisance: • the protection of children from harm and write to your local councillors to say what you think: bit.ly/3zF3MHl
    • In Planning and Development / Palmers Green Town Centre
    • Author PGC Webmaster
    • 03 Aug 2022 20:03
    • Forcing the local plan process into the daylight: ...
    • Some people have experienced problems with reaching the local plan petition on the council website. This is reportedly because of anti-hacking measured used by the web team. The petition organisers have issued a new QR code (below), which instead of going straight to the petition goes to a page listing current petitions. (You can also reach that page using the following link: governance.enfield.gov.uk/mgEpetitionListDisplay.aspx?bcr=1) Once you get to that page, scroll down till you see the following on a mobile phone or the following on a desktop computer Then click on the underlined link to the petition. Because of these problems, the council has extended the deadline for signing until 1st September.
    • In Planning and Development / Planning & Development: Miscellaneous subjects
    • Author PGC Webmaster
    • 03 Aug 2022 19:49
    • The future of Broomfield House: Back on the agenda...
    • Broomfield House: Where we are and how we got here. Restoring Broomfield House after the series of five fires, the first in 1984, the last in 2019, has proved unaffordable. In 2013 The Heritage Lottery Fund rejected the joint Council-community bid for full restoration of the House. In retrospect, this was probably the best and last chance of saving the House for the public. However, beginning in 2014 the council-chaired Broomfield House Partnership Board (on which among others the Broomfield House Trust and Friends of Broomfield House were represented) examined a variety of alternative ways ahead. The Board last met in November 2018. In March 2019 a Council-led workshop discussed the possibility of rebuilding the exterior of the house as it appeared at the time of purchase in 1902. This would restore the key visual heart of the listed park. Part of the funding for the initial stage would come from a small housing development in the listed stableyard, subject to Historic England’s approval. The Trust believed that once a structure was in place, and the confidence of other potential donors boosted it might then be possible to gradually restore key parts of the interior (Hall,...
    • In Conservation / Broomfield House restoration
    • Author Colin Younger
    • 03 Aug 2022 17:48
    • A festival too far?
    • I think it is atrocious that the council has agreed to this without proper consultation . I'm sure lack of consultation is a phrase I have heard before! Personally I will be opposing the grant of an alcohol licence as that is our only legal avenue to object. The Friends of Broomfield Park are rightfully disappointed with the process.
    • In Planning and Development / Palmers Green Town Centre
    • Author Philip Sheffield
    • 30 Jul 2022 10:55

Recent forum topics

Forums index