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palmers green ward councillors chris james and doug taylorAt the Palmers Green ward forum meeting on Monday discussion ranged over a wide range of issues - the summary points below are far from exhaustive, so if you were at the meeting and want to add or correct anything, don't hesitate to use the forum (same goes if you weren't there but would like to comment on some of the issues).

In some wards, eg Winchmore Hill, minutes of meetings are issued. This hasn't been the case (so far) with the new PG ward, but Councillors Doug Taylor and Chris James did provide a handout containing notes produced by council officers relating to many of the issues that were discussed when the forum last met, in January. This is reproduced at the bottom of this report.

Brief notes of some of the points raised

Young mayors

The new Young Mayor of Enfield, 15-year-old Darren Paul, and the new Deputy Young Mayor, 12-year-old Sila Karpinar, were at the meeting, together with the outgoing Young Mayor. They talked about their roles and concerns, which included:

  • a desire for more and better lighting in parks so that young people could use them more
  • young people, including the Deputy Young Mayor herself, feeling unsafe on the borough's streets.
    • A resident suggested that the Love Your Doorstep after-school community patrol schemes could be extended to include Palmers Green (currently they cover Enfield Town and Southgate). Cllr James said that the council were looking at the possibility of setting up similar after-school patrols, but this was at a very early stage.
    • Questions were asked about whether the CHIPS (Community Help Point Scheme) safe havens for young people still exist. (The CHIPS website seems to indicate that they are still in operation.)

Ward Panel

Karl Brown, chair of the ward panel, gave a brief explanation of the role of this committee, the successor to the CAPE.

Consultations on new walking and cycling routes

  • The councillors pointed out that exploratory work on filling gaps in the walking and cycling network was being funded by Transport for London. Implementation will depend on funding becoming available.
  • Some people thought the proposals were too vague.
  • Some people were unclear about how to use the drop pins and how to suggest different routes.
  • One resident said that the council would already have plans that it would go ahead with regardless of the outcome of consultations, as, he alleged, had been the case with the Fox Lane LTN. Another resident pointed out that the Fox Lane LTN as implemented was very different from that originally proposed and the final scheme was very similar to that suggested by a working party set up by Fox Lane & District Residents Association.
  • A resident said that walking routes already existed in the form of pavements.


  • There were complaints about speeding along Aldermans Hill. One resident said that the hilly nature of the road makes it impossible to install speed humps.
  • A resident of Green Lanes called for speed cameras to catch speeding drivers between the Fox Lane and Hedge Lane junctions, which would eventually result in a fatal crash.

Parking enforcement

  • There was concern about dangers arising from illegal parking on Aldermans Hill, particularly by customers of cafes near the junction of Grovelands Road.
  • National legislation rules out use of static cameras or photographic evidence to prosecute drivers parking on double yellows. They have to be caught red-handed by a parking warden or police officer.
  • An officer from the Safer Neighbourhood Team said that, despite this, it was useful for residents to collect registration numbers of persistent offenders and email them to the police, who might be able to take some action.
  • Cllr Taylor said that the council was considering erecting pavement barriers at the Aldermans Hill/Grovelands Road junction to deter illegal parking.

Rat running in Hamilton Crescent

  • A resident of Hamilton Crescent said that the incessant flow of traffic along his road in the morning (6am to 9am) made it very difficult and dangerous to cross the road on foot.
  • It was suggested that the measures proposed by the council for phase 2 of the Connaught Gardens Quieter Neighbourhood would close off this and other rat-runs.

Other issues

  • There was a complaint about people riding bicycles and e-scooters on the pavement and going through red lights.
  • A resident complained about the council spending money to create a pedestrian footway on part of the carriageway across the railway bridge on Fox Lane when it should have been spent improving the pavement on the southern side of the bridge. Another resident responded that the new footway was a boon to pedestrians and suggested that the pavement on the southern side should be closed off because it was unpleasant and inherently dangerous because muggers could operate there unseen. Another resident said that someone had been robbed at knifepoint when walking along the southern pavement.
  • A resident said that since Travis Perkins had been permitted by the council to park lorries overnight at their premises near the Morrisons car park, Travis Perkins lorries parked in the road were now causing carriageway obstructions along this road that were causing serious problems in Broomfield Lane.
  • The police confirmed that there were occasions when passengers on the W6 bus were being robbed by muggers while travelling between Palmers Green and Haselbury (mainly affecting children travelling to Latymer School?)
  • Kim Lumley from Friends of Broomfield Park mentioned that lights installed in the park for use when events are held after dark had been damaged by vans driven through the park for various reasons. This prompted a resident to point out that the lights had been left on 24 hours a day over the Christmas period.
  • The idea of a Palmers Green half marathon was floated.

Next meeting

Doug Taylor said that the next meeting (date not yet decided) would focus on proposals for improving Palmers Green's town centre. It was suggested that he should contact Andrea Gugli from the council's town centres team, who had given an interesting presentation on work on improving Southgate town centre at the recent Southgate District Civic Voice meeting and had stated that similar work was scheduled for PG town centre.

Updates on issues raised at the Palmers Green ward January 2023 meeting

The notes below were made available at the May 2023 meeting and appear to have been drafted by council officers in response to requests from the ward councillors. They should be read in conjunction with the PGC report on the January meeting.

Plans for the next Palmers Green festival and what happened to prior year budget

The Palmers Green festival* was part of the borough wide "A Month of Sundays (AMOS) event" across the borough's town centres and Enfield based (Southgate) Icy Mango were procured to deliver the programme across all the events. Icy Mango worked closely with the Green Lanes Business Association to support their desire to deliver their shopping festival as part of the AMOS programme. Along with other national and local events, the Palmers Green Festival was called off as a mark of respect due to the death of the late Queen. Because of these extenuating circumstances, it would not be expected to withhold fees from any supplier involved as a lot of the preparation work was completed.

The Month of Sundays programme won't be continuing this year, but a Borough wide Festival of Industry won Arts Council Funding support and will be rolled out during 2023.

Begging on Green Lanes - referral to the Modern Slavery team

The Council recognise this is a problem borough-wide therefore the Anti-Social Behaviour (ASB) Team are in discussions and liaising with the Modern Slavery Team and Police on how to best tackle this issue.

There is a Public Spaces Protection Order (PSPO) in place borough-wide that includes intimidatory begging (begging that is perceived to be intimidating, aggressive or causing a nuisance, or pose a risk to their safety or others), therefore the ASB Team will ask the local Police to consider the use of PSPO where applicable or issue ASB Warnings for persons that are repeatedly begging. The ASB Team would request anyone who witnessed incidents of crime or ASB to please make a report to the Police on 101, online and 999 in an emergency. We would also encourage residents to sign up to OWL - Online Watch Link at or download the app on their smart device to receive regular ward updates about what is happening in their area and the Police i.e. crime prevention messages.

Cigarette ends on Green Lanes and how many fines have been issued

The total number of FPNs issued for dropped litter between January 2022 and January 2023 was 5,374.

With respect to your question regarding resources applied to fining, in addition to Council Waste Enforcement Officers we engage the services of a third-party contractor to support the Council in the investigation of waste offences. The current provider is Kingdom LA Support. LA Support Officers predominately focus on the issuing of Fixed Penalty Notices (FPNS) for dropped litter. They will regularly patrol the high footfall areas.

Double yellow lines Park Lane**/Green Lanes being ignored

Continuing with enforcement activity is the only intervention that can be offered at this stage. The report will be passed to the relevant team to see if any further targeted enforcement activity can be undertaken.

An arrangement of double yellow lines is the typical, and generally most appropriate, layout of parking controls to place at a junction. It can be seen as a benefit that loading is not prohibited by these markings, thus leaving space for genuine loading activity that does not conflict with the cycling facilities or traffic flow on the main road. Any driver blocking the dropped kerbs of a crossing point already commits an offence against which patrolling staff can take action.

Ideally the arrangement should keep these kerbsides clear of most other stationary vehicle usage. It should be noted, that it was a decision at national level that allows blue badge holders to park for up to three hours on yellow lines, with the judgement of a police officer required as to whether any particular example presents a more general offence. Similarly restricting camera-based enforcement of parking controls by local authorities was a decision taken at national level.

There are hundreds of junctions across the network that do not yet have any yellow lines. Since the Grenfell Tower disaster of 2017 the council's focus has been on those where we see routine obstruction to bin lorries, and where there is, thus, a serious risk that a fire engine could not gain access in an emergency. Typically, the obstructing factor is habitual, long-stay domestic parking; not short-stay 'fly parking' by those who are not venturing far from their unlawfully parked vehicle. Therefore, reduced visibility (with its implications for road safety) is no longer the factor we use to prioritise such sites. Rather we feel that in an urban context, drivers and other road users are adept at adjusting their motion to account for parked vehicles, for reduced visibility and for reduced road space. Accordingly, this does not always amount to a serious road safety concern.

Within our neighbourhood schemes, the cameras are used to encourage compliance with the 'No Motor Vehicle' restrictions. For the latter type of 'moving vehicle' offence - unlike parking offences - we are not so restricted by national rules on undertaking camera-based enforcement. This explains the difference between the two scenarios.

Cycling at speed on Green Lanes

Like all transport modes some people cycling may show less consideration than is appropriate. People cycling through this town centre environment should naturally slow their speeds, equally people walking should be also be aware of the existence of the cycling facility which is well marked. It is positive to note that we have not had any reports of collisions or near misses at this location since the route was opened some years ago. We do have an incident report form on the Let?s Talk platform and would encourage residents to report any incidents or near misses via this form:

There are no current plans to install signs telling cyclists to slow down here.

Loading bays on Green Lanes

There is no set procedure for requesting and approving loading bays. Requests submitted to can be looked at on an individual basis, where exact details of the locations and the loading demand are provided. Given that space for loading is often in competition with customer parking or domestic parking (flats above shops, etc.) the team seeks to be convinced that the loading bay will be important in improving the viability of the surrounding outlets, rather than merely improving the convenience of making deliveries from the perspective of the delivery driver.

The project work to introduce cycle lanes on Green Lanes may be too far in the past now for a review of loading facilities to still fall under the monitoring work associated with those changes. However, if the community believes such an exercise was committed to, I would be pleased to see any details on the topic.

Street gullies

Street Cleansing are now responsible for the Gully Cleansing contract on behalf of the Highways Service.

Prior to September 2020 the service had been outsourced to private contractors for a period of 10 years.

All residential streets in the borough should be visited within a two-year period however due to the previous lack of maintenance this is taking much longer than anticipated.

Main roads, or Priority Routes ,are on a schedule of once and in some cases twice annually, as the gullies here will fill much quicker due to the volume of traffic using the road

Once we have caught up and are on top of the schedule it will become much easier and quicker next time around, however as there are a total of 26,000 gullies across the borough, some more than once and the budget allows for only one vehicle and team, it will still be difficult to achieve the required results

Lakeside Road junction with Aldermans Hill, N13.

The raised footway (continuous footway) was put in late 2018/early 2019 as part of the first tranche of Quieter Neighbourhoods the council had started to introduce. The Traffic team doesn't recall revoking any of the double yellow lines in Lakeside, just re-marking the ones on Aldermans Hill to go across the junction.

Penalty Charge Notices (PCNs) are being issued at this junction, however NSL will be instructed to make extra visits here. Any vehicles seen parked on the yellow line, footway or raised footway will be issued with a PCN.

Aksular building on Green Lanes

The LBE building control team visited the building and confirm the building is not in a dangerous structure and is boarded up. As such we do not have any powers to instruct the owner to carry out works to the building.

Motorcycles parking outside McDonald's in Lodge Drive, N13.

There is a loading bay on the footway outside this McDonald's which allows delivery drivers including the motorbikes to park. They should not however park outside of this footway parking bay or on the double yellow lines nearby.

NSL are aware of the bikes sometimes parking out of the bay or on the yellow lines and do issue Penalty Charge Notices however they will be asked to make extra visits to this location over the next few weeks.

Motor cycles on Fox Lane - regarding the issue of Penalty Charge Notices (PCNs) at the junction of Fox Lane and Green Lanes, N13 near the LTN restriction.

Any motorbikes entering Fox Lane from Green Lanes, N13 won't be issued with a Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) as their vehicle registration plate won't be visible (as the registration plates are only on the back). If they exit Fox Lane to Green Lanes tickets will be issued.

If the motorcyclists choose to drive along the pavement to avoid the camera unfortunately the Council has no power to enforce this, it would be a matter for the police.

Yellow line parking at top of Park Avenue - vehicles parking in Park Avenue, N13 junction with Green Lanes.

The yellow lines at this junction are regularly patrolled, in fact at least 12 Penalty Charge Notices (PCNs) were issued between the beginning of January and mid February.

Note added by Palmers Green Community

* The Palmers Green festival referred to in the notes was scheduled to be one of the Month of Sundays events held last summer in five of the borough's town centres; it was cancelled because of the death of the Queen. It was being organised by Enfield Council and the Green Lanes Business Association. It should not be confused with the Palmers Green Festivals that were held in Broomfield Park up until September 2019 and will return on 3rd September this year.

** This should read Park Avenue not Park Lane. This issue is referred to again later in the notes, with a different response!


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Karl Brown posted a reply
26 May 2023 07:45
Thanks for providing such a detailed summary. The only point I would add would be rather than looking (only) at the high street next time (where PGAT have the near-term position pretty well buttoned already), the idea is to look forward across PG: what might be happening under the draft local plan, what could happen that we would like to see and such. Some straight off the pre breakfast cuff:
Travis Perkins is partly down for mixed use redevelopment, possible implications being ..
The area to the east of Green Lanes to the North Circular is tabbed as tall building potential, to the south as a district heating zone, again so..
We’ve seen three consultations in quick order for walking / cycling routes into / through PG. If we were being active rather than proactive what / where would we like. Would we add the New River as viable walking for instance.
If high streets are moving away from historic retail, and add in more WFH, what does that suggest for our retail mix. Is there an associated new industry opportunity, could that involve the park,
What about the changing mix of who we are, are we united, celebratory, learning.
Cars are changing, are we and any required infrastructure
Where and what does climate change influence
What would / could we like to have “on the shelf”, oven-readyish for any future funding opportunities
That’s random, individual throwaways rather than themes but might give some food for thought. Any session(s) would need to be structured, as well as sensibly ongoing. We’re capable of that.