A plaza for PG?

Great news - fingers crossed the trial becomes permanent

Completely disagree - the LTN is a disaster and a complete failure, anyone who doesn’t live in it (and a great many that do) want it gone! It’s grossly unfair - This smacks of desperation and a last gasp attempt by the Labour council to drum up some support for their failed scheme - they’re making it up on the fly, it was only recently that we were told that the parklet was going in there. They know, and we know, the LTN is dead!

I don’t really understand why, whatever people’s views on the ltn, the Devonshire idea is out the window. This is a residential street that was unequivocally being used as a cut through to avoid junctions in pg and cut off a corner. It isn’t something the council has only just suggested as the post above has suggested. It was in the consultation event in the old Starbucks 2 or three years ago for starters. It was notably something that people seemed to like the idea of and Devonshire is distinct from the fox lane etc estate- it’s the other side of a train line for starters. And no I don’t live there

Making the space at the end of Devonshire even more attractive for local businesses and community enjoyment can only be positive.

Palmers Green is bigger than just the affluent part that’s been given utopia. The splitting of our once great area is sad to see. Palmers green spreads far and wide yet it’s always the same part and same people that get looked after …. Why is that ?

This is a great idea and will help local businesses.

The LTN has been a resounding success. Rat running on residential streets has been stopped and the traffic on surrounding roads has decreased markedly in recent months.

Ediz, is right, LTNs should be extended to other areas.

Feels like a fop to encourage support for the LTN.

I love the idea of plazas in general but the economics simply do not stack up for Palmers Green (Enfield may be different). PG is blighted by being over-retailed (like much of the UK). The "high street" is arguably already an incredibly elongated 1.2km if you take it from 90 On the Green round to Yasar Halim. PG does not need an increased retail presence, it will just cannibalise the existing offer.

It's true retail space is no longer in such demand thanks to online shopping and many towns centres are dying. But many are thriving because they can evolve into what consumers want: a place that is good to visit for leisure as well as shopping.
The key is adaptabilty and the willingness to suit new types of consumer. Progressive towns and cities across the world are creating good environments to be in. Curtailing car use is often part of this. Change is hard to accept but its a case of do or die for many shopping centres.

I have no real issue with Devonshire Road (although I'm not sure how it'll work); I do however have huge issues around the introduction of LTN's, they are little more than money making areas that divide communities - gated communities for the better off will come next - its just not right or acceptable to the majority & I believe its politically motivated!

I too agree with Ediz on this - other areas of Palmers Green need their high traffic neighbourhoods removing with parklets and filters. The roads south of the North Circular and east of Green Lanes around Grenoble Gardens need particular attention.

Camera controlled filters only raise funds because drivers either dont know the Highway Code or wilfully drive through them. Shocking that people in charge of a tonne of metal capable of high speeds and killing people ignore basic road signs.

Do come along to the protest against the injustice of Fox Lane Low Traffic Neighbourhood this Saturday morning 20 Nov at 10.00 am. Please stand in solidarity with your neighbours in this community suffering the consequences of this scheme.

The timing of this announcement about the proposed plaza is odd to say the least, coming just 2 days before the protest march. The press release isn’t available on the Council website nor does it appear elsewhere that I can see. Cllr Ian Barnes in his tweet is only includes the Palmers Green one and makes no mention of the Enfield Plaza — though as Deputy Leader you would think both should be equally important. But this is the Council that said the Devonshire Road parklet was coming in September. I think PG broke that news too … but then it ended up in Chase Side.

And how do they think this will work? Palmers Green is gridlocked due to the cycle lanes. Shops are dying due to extortionate rent and rates and the trading of far too many repeat businesses. There's nothing to bring people to the area. Only a few years back Everman cinema were considering opening up at the Junction of Aldermans Hill. Instead the rent was way too high and they pulled out only for a furniture and a door shop to open in the prime location of the area. If they'd reduced the rent and the cinema had opened it might have gone someway to encourage people to come to the area and spend money ie a film and a meal in a local restaurant. Enfield Council are only interested in business that can generate more revenue for themselves such as coffee shops with outdoor seating where they have to pay for the privilege. With these seating areas and cycle lanes there's no where to walk let alone create a parisian culture. I just can't see it working.

Regardless of views of the local LTN which have been endlessly discussed on this and other forums, the Plaza as somebody commented, is not a 'Fop for the LTN'. The reason, is that if the LTN does not go ahead than Devonshire Road would be re-opened to through traffic along with all the other roads that are currently closed the same way. It also sounds a lot of money to develop a section of the road that has already been closed off but similar figures have been quoted for making the Green in Winchmore Hill permanent.

More people cycling frees up space for those who must drive. Traffic queues in Palmers Green are caused by drivers - the number of vehicles has increased dramatically in recent years. The only cause of traffic jams is.....traffic! What's your solution?

This article explains how you get a high street to thrive www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2018/mar/29/high-street-closed-betting-shops-york-back-from-dead?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other It needs more than retail, it needs to be more of a ‘place’ and this is what the council are trying, so good for them. I’ve seen so many people talking PG down but it is bucking the trend with more shops opening despite the pandemic.

It looks like a splendid idea which I suspect has the support of the business association as well as adjacent businesses. I hope any development would aim to produce a genuine plaza and not merely a blocked road with planters.
Inevitably posts diverge towards LTNs so it’s perhaps worth pointing out HMG’s latest (19 Oct) commentary on same:-
“We will deliver the Prime Minister’s bold vision for cycling and walking, investing £2 billion over five years with the vision that half of all journeys in towns and cities will be cycled or walked by 2030. We will also deliver thousands of miles of safe, continuous, direct routes for cycling in towns and cities, physically separated from pedestrians and volume motor traffic along with more low traffic neighbourhoods and school streets."
The existing London target stands at 80% of all journeys being active (walking, cycling, public transport) by 2041.
With the evidential based support of LTN’s in HMG’s recent review, “Gear Change: one year on”, I don’t get the feeling they are going to go away any time soon.
I’m quite confident the story about Everyman cinemas is not the case and even if so, Enfield council neither sets rents nor business rates. A local cinema would be a marvellous addition.

I would like to understand the process here. The press release tells us that Enfield Council and the architects have begun engaging with local residents and businesses to discuss aspirations for Devonshire Road and are expecting to deliver the project by Spring 2022 dependent on the outcome of the Fox Lane QN Trial.

Well that's news to the Fox Lane and District Residents' association which counts Devonshire Road within its boundary. It is also news to local businesses who have not been consulted about this. There are many questions to be asked and I urge the council to genuinely consult with the residents association and Green Lanes business association.

The idea for a public space at the junction of Devonshire Road and Green Lanes originated with the community; several residents in Devonshire Road and other streets in Palmers Green (including FLDRA members) had the idea of a parklet there - and in 2019 they erected a 'pop-up' parklet, supported by Better Streets for Enfield and Enfield Cycling Campaign members. Residents in Devonshire road were told of the event and many helped or visited. I met with the Vice-Chair of GLBA and the event was publicised in their WhatsApp group - and I spoke personally with several proximate businesses, who welcomed the idea (indeed some wanted the same near the Triangle). Councillors from all parties were invited and several attended from the main parties. The trial was well-received and widely reported on social media and through the Council's channels. The idea gathered momentum with the trial LTN in place - and was picked-up by the excellent, pro-active Palmers Green Action Team. Another local resident posited the idea of a 'plaza' rather than just a parklet and drafted some ideas. The Council have taken this terrific constructive community-originated idea forward. They have indeed consulted with GLBA on the parklet idea. Hopefully the LTN will be made permanent together with this plaza - it will help local businesses, provide a relaxing and attractive space for all and bring much needed greenery to that part of Green Lanes. I hope that the new FLDRA committee will be unequivocal in supporting a constructive idea that will enhance our High Street, especially as a fair few members (including several past committee members) were involved in its gestation.

The idea is not without merit but for a press release to say that local people and businesses have been consulted is spin. The current FLDRA committee is of course open to new ideas but , having spoken to many local businesses, there has been no genuine consultation .

So does FLDRA committee support this idea?

Plaza is an interesting idea but cannot see why it needs to be linked to the complete disaster that is the LTN?

A scheme designed for the few at the detriment of the many

How can diverting all traffic through Southgate roundabout, increasing congestion and pollution be a good thing? Only people living in the area who clearly don't drive regularly may be pleased, I have no idea who else can possibly like it. I know lots of people living in the LTN are very unhappy.

The traffic blocks fire engines at Southgate as well as any emergency vehicles trying to get into or around the LTN

It's a badly thought out scheme that anyone with an ounce of common sense can see is a disaster waiting to happen, that has simply moved cars travelling through it into traffic Jan's that never existed previously and increased pollution enormously

Absolutely ludicrous

Anyone saying its a success is clearly selfish, lives in the LTN and does not care about anyone else

The plaza is a terrific idea that can only enhance Green Lanes - it's directly linked to the low traffic neighbourhood in that the Devonshire Road/Green Lanes junction would need to be filtered - as it is now as part of the LTN trial,

I must be incredibly in the know because I knew about the plaza idea several years ago. There must have been a bit in the Starbucks presentation which was only shown to me. Devious enfield council, will thine tricks never end? Deciding to tell everyone else as a cynical ploy when I thought this was something special between us.

In reply to an earlier post, I’m getting a bit broken record now, but there was reference to the use of the space in this way in the Starbucks presentation. I specifically remember even people who didn’t like the idea of an ltn saying they were positive about that bit. Then came the bit Adrian has referred to. It won’t affect the amount of retail space, it just creates a high street focal point and public space. I struggle to find anything negative about it at all.