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Enfield Council has now published a leaflet showing the (presumably) definitive plans for the Fox Lane quieter neighbourhood.  They incorporate a number of changes to the original proposals, made in response to feedback during the consultation.  See the box at the end of this article for details.

According to the Quieter Neighbourhoods web page, planters will initially be placed at either end of the Mall and Selborne Road, enabling the team to confirm the detailed positioning. The remaining planters will then be rolled out across the area a few days later. The intention is to complete this work prior to Christmas (it's unclear whether this schedule refers only to the planters, or to the entire scheme - probably the latter.)

The council will be monitoring the effectiveness of the measures in the Spring, when new data about traffic in the area will be collected and compared with existing baseline data.  As regards the follow-on to the monitoring, Cycle Enfield have informed Better Streets for Enfield that "The processes for discussing the results of the monitoring and making any new proposals will depend in part on the results of the monitoring so have not yet been fully decided".

That (slightly confusing) statement was provided in response to an enquiry by Better Streets, in which the campaigning group expressed their pleasure at the decision to go ahead with the Fox Lane scheme.  In an email to deputy leader Daniel Anderson and other councillors representing wards in and near Palmers Green Better Streets co-chair Clare Rogers wrote:

We especially welcome the commitment in the report to monitor speed and volume post-implementation, and to introduce alternative measures to reduce traffic further if necessary. We are keen to see, as the report says, not just a slight reduction in traffic speed and volume, but a significant reduction - to 'create an environment where walking and cycling are facilitated and seen as the preferred form of travel'. If achieved, this would transform the area by reducing car journeys, increasing physical activity for all ages, reducing air pollution and creating stronger communities.

The Fox Lane quieter neighbourhood was on the agenda of last Friday's Winchmore Hill ward forum, where Clare Rogers gave a presentation about the scheme on behalf of Better Streets for Enfield. She also outlined the thinking behind "low-traffic neighbourhoods", which uses "modal filters" to make it impossible for drivers to cut through residential areas. The "villages" that have been created by Waltham Forest Council in parts of Walthamstow and Leyton use the same principles and have transformed the areas they cover. In the view of Better Streets, if the quieter neighbourhood scheme fails to achieve the desired outcomes, Enfield Council should consider implementing a low-traffic neighbourhood.  This could be done by using additional planters to create strategic barriers to through traffic.

The Better Streets presentation provoked much discussion among the forum attendees. Most people contributing to the debate were in favour of measures to restrict rat running and reduce speeds, though some had objections. A couple of Lakes Estate residents spoke about how much pleasanter their streets had become while temporarily blocked off at one end. A former resident of the area now known as "Walthamstow Village" confirmed that the area had been dramatically changed for the better.

Fox Lane Quieter Neighbourhood – Construction Proposals

Residents have told us that the biggest issues with traffic in your area are speeding, rat running cars and the school run. Having listened to the responses to the consultation several changes have been made including informal crossings along Fox Lane and changes to the junction of Meadway / Greenway. Work is due to start in the next few weeks with the placement of the planters at the entrances to the neighbourhood.

The locations of features such as traffic calming shown on this plan are only indicative.

fox lane qn revised design publicityClick on the image to download the leaflet

Neighbourhood Gateways

We will be placing large planters in the road so that drivers entering the roads are required to give way to vehicles exiting, which in turn will deter through traffic from using the residential area as a cut through. They will also indicate to drivers that this is a residential area and that speeding is unacceptable.

Psychological Traffic Calming

Where current average speeds are not fast enough to require full speed humps, we are painting “3D” humps on the road. This has been used elsewhere in London to great effect

Road Safety

An island will be constructed at the junction of Greenway / Meadway to prevent vehicles from cutting the corner when turning into Meadway from Greenway

Point No Entry

We will install point no entries at two locations to further deter through traffic as it will make their journey less straightforward and reduce the time saved travelling through the area. Following residents’ suggestions during the consultation, minor changes have been made to their position.

School Streets

We are proposing to ban vehicles from entering Cannon Road at school times. We intend to do this with minimum disruption to residents of this road by enforcing the ban via CCTV cameras. To ensure that parents do not just park as close as they can in other roads we will work with the school and provide support for alternatives to driving such as Park and Stride.

Roads with continuous footways

Roads that have had these features installed will have the new neighbourhood sign erected, and if necessary, after a period of monitoring, planters placed at their junctions with Aldermans Hill. Fox Lane will also have the sign erected.

Traffic Calming

To further improve road safety for pedestrians near the school we are proposing to install sinusoidal speed humps on Fox Lane. We know that a lot of people do not like speed humps even if they do wish to see slower cars, however, these humps are designed to reduce the noiseand vibration normally associated with speed humps.

Informal Crossings

We intend to install informal pedestrian crossings at all junctions along Fox Lane. But to begin with, we will trial their effectiveness at the junction of Fox Lane and Amberley Road / The Mall

Note

This article was updated on 20 November 2018 to reflect the changed link to details of the proposals on the council website.  The new link goes to a slightly revised version of the map, with planters shown at the Aldermans Hill end of Lakeside Road, Grovelands Road and Old Park Road (presumably they were omitted from the original map inadvertently?)

Links

Quieter Neighbourhoods page on Cycle Enfield website

Full report on the outcome of the Fox Lane QN statutory consultation (The report is the third item in this document pack on the council website - however, the included drawings are incorrect)

Fox Lane quieter neighbourhood scheme to go ahead (PGC 9/10/2018)

Low-traffic neighbourhoods - two new guides (London Living Streets)

Better Streets for Enfield website

Better Streets for Enfield Facebook page

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Darren Edgar posted a reply
07 Nov 2018 09:22
It's a pity the Lakes Estate streets don't really work for modal filtering - insufficient turning space for wherever the cut-offs would be.

Have the streets ever been considered for a one way system though? I'm thinking like the Harringay ladder? Up one, down the next, etc.
Clare Rogers posted a reply
07 Nov 2018 15:49
Alternating one-way streets are one way to keep through traffic out of a neighbourhood, but they're difficult to get right (you can end up channelling all the traffic down a couple of unfortunate streets - think Grenoble Gdns N13). Modal filters are the gold standard! And absolutely no reason why they couldn't work in the Fox Lane neighbourhood. If you walk around the low traffic neighbourhoods in Waltham Forest you'll see the streets are very similar in design to ours. For turning, filters can for example be placed near the entrance to Mews roads. Or (God forbid) create the space by removing some parking...
Karl Brown posted a reply
07 Nov 2018 16:44
Four years since the process started, a year since the statutory consultation, about eight months of “analysis” of the responses before an alternate proposal was finally put forward, only for that to be changed at the very last minute and this latest / final version to be presented. Let me say that the 50 or so residents of my street who voted so strongly in favour of the first one, in total constituting significantly more than the difference between those in favour and those against the overall scheme, and so making it a clear net GO rather than a NO GO, would not be backing this one; and I have a strong feeling will not be backing this one.

So what does that mean for consultation and the “process” (beyond extremely slow and unnecessarily costly)?
Adrian Day posted a reply
07 Nov 2018 17:39
Very disappointed that the promised planter for Old Park Road south end has been removed. 15 years we've been campaigning to reduce rat running; after many false starts and promises we finally saw a map with restricted entry - and a week later it's take away. I'm looking at moving.
Lucy B posted a reply
07 Nov 2018 18:21
Old Park Road is dangerous! I live at the South end with 2 young children and I cannot believe anyone thinks the amount and speed of the traffic is safe enough not to intervene. How can it possibly make sense to remove this planter from the plan last minute?
Kate S posted a reply
07 Nov 2018 18:43
This is a huge disappointment. Old Park Road is a dreadful rat run, our dog nearly got run over recently.
We want the planter!
John Phillips posted a reply
08 Nov 2018 11:45
I have spoken to a lot of my neighbours in Lakeside Road and, while we are glad to be getting one planter, we are disappointed that the continuous pavement is deemed to be enough to both reduce and slow down traffic. Clearly it is not. But the situation will be kept under review so we live in hope.
We have also spoken to neighbours in Grovelands Road who feel the same.
On the matter of one-way streets, I would consider anything to reduce rat-running, but surely they would speed up the traffic and I don't think that is what we want.
JuliusCaf posted a reply
11 Nov 2018 10:20
Believe me,Devonshire Road is no better!
Basil Clarke posted a reply
14 Nov 2018 19:05
As already reported, at the recent Winchmore Hill ward forum Clare Rogers gave a presentation about the plans for the Fox Lane quieter neighbourhood on behalf of Better Streets for Enfield. Clare has now produced a written version of her presentation and uploaded it to the Better Streets website.

Clare writes that Better Streets for Enfield welcomes Enfield Council's goal of "creat[ing] an environment where walking and cycling are facilitated and seen as the preferred method of travel" and reducing car traffic through the area. Evidence that drivers are using this purely residential area as a cut-through or "rat run" was provided by an "origin-destination" survey carried out by the council in 2016. Automatic number plate recognition (ANPR) technology was used to identify the number of vehicles that were entering the area and then leaving it within a set number of seconds and to find the routes they were taking. The four routes through the area with the highest number of cars are shown on this map.



1: The Mall and Amberley Road, 2: Meadway and Greenway, 3: Meadway and Bourne Avenue, 4: Fox Lane and Old Park Road

More recently Better Streets have been doing some data collection themselves, this time using a good old-fashioned method - standing by the side of the road with a clipboard (backed up with video footage) noting down vehicles, pedestrians and cyclists. This doesn't show what routes through the area drivers are using, but it does provide a snapshot of levels of traffic along particular roads. Once the quieter neighbourhood measures are in place (the council say before Christmas) it will be possible to count traffic along the same roads at the same time of day and judge how effective the measures have proved.

Clare says that some of the vehicle counts were "shocking":

I stood on the Mall at morning rush hour last week and counted 540 vehicles passing through in an hour. That’s more than one car every 10 seconds. It also suggests that the Mall is carrying around 5,000 vehicles per day – a number you’d expect on a main road, not in a residential area.


Such heavy traffic creates noise, pollution and danger, deterring people from walking or cycling. Families who would prefer their children to walk to school instead drive, meaning that there is even more traffic - a vicious circle.



So why have we reached this situation where children no longer walk to school by themselves or play in the street?

It’s not just that there are more cars on our roads. The problem is that in the UK we treat our residential neighbourhoods as part of the main road network. As traffic has increased, many neighbourhood roads have become through routes for non-resident drivers. While other European countries (like the Netherlands, Switzerland, Germany) have redesigned neighbourhoods to make streets low in traffic and give priority back to people – with cars as ‘guests’ – the UK has yet to follow suit.


Clare says that the quieter neighbourhood measures might do the trick, but if it turns out that they don't make enough difference, Better Streets will be lobbying the council to trial a "low-traffic neighbourhood". By creating barriers to cars at selected junctions (but allowing people on foot or on bike through),

The result is that anyone can drive to and from any street in the area, but no one can drive through the area.


The trial low-traffic neighbourhood could be created by putting two planters across the selected junctions. If there are problems, the trial could be reconfigured simply by moving the planters.

Clare points out how successful low-traffic neighbourhoods have proved in Walthamstow:

You can even hear birds singing. Walking and cycling rates have gone through the roof and families can cycle safely to school. People are taking pride in tending their front gardens. And once again, children are playing in the street.


You can read Clare's full article at betterstreets.co.uk/could-the-fox-lane-area-be-a-low-traffic-neighbourhood .
Colin Younger posted a reply
19 Nov 2018 17:27
I asked Councillor Dinah Barry about the figures used for the Fox Lane area quiet neighbourhood.
The reply she got from David Cowan is as follows:

A summary of all the traffic data will be going on the website in table form in the next few days so that residents can see the overall figures and we will update it as we monitor it further in the coming months. New speed surveys are being carried out this week and next on all roads in the area as well and this information will be added as soon as we receive the results.
Darren Edgar posted a reply
20 Nov 2018 09:47
Didn't some wazzock cut the cables last time they tried speed/traffic surveys on the Lakes?
PGC Webmaster posted a reply
20 Nov 2018 16:47
The council has uploaded a revised map that shows planters at the Aldermans Hill end of Lakeside Road, Grovelands Road and Old Park Road. The new link is cycleenfield.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/Quieter-Neighbourhoods-Fox-lane-engagement-construction-2.pdf
Karl Brown posted a reply
20 Nov 2018 20:32
Is there any significance behind, "To further improve road safety for pedestrians near the school we are
proposing to install sinusoidal speed humps on Fox Lane."
This stopped being a school half a lifetime since and it makes me wonder about the safety of pedestrians other than near the school, on Fox Lane as well as elsewhere in the area under consideration.
i ask, because I recall a previous exercise -which ended up not being delivered - which included a LBE plan for a zebra crossing across Fox Lane where the footpath (ref # 207) emerges from the garages to the south of the old school building. And that highlighted the risk of sitting behind a desk far away and trying to draw up a scheme. It would almost certainly have been the UK's least used zebra crossing.
Neil Littman posted a reply
22 Nov 2018 14:45
Planters on Eversley Gardens? That is on the W9 bus route. Why on earth would you do that?
Eddie Olaleye posted a reply
26 Nov 2018 15:39
Just saw the raised beds at either end of Selborne Road, blocking half the road off,and wondered...

Come Tuesday, how on earth will the dustbin lorry get past to collect the rubbish ?
Larry Roberts posted a reply
26 Nov 2018 16:27
My own view is that I'd rather have speed humps on Lakeside Road than a planter at the Aldermans Hill junction where there is already a narrowed entrance, continuous pavement and a traffic island on Aldermans HIll which narrows it.

….I'd agree with your comment above, Colin
Darren Edgar posted a reply
27 Nov 2018 10:27
Larry Roberts wrote:

My own view is that I'd rather have speed humps on Lakeside Road than a planter at the Aldermans Hill junction where there is already a narrowed entrance, continuous pavement and a traffic island on Aldermans HIll which narrows it.


Agreed. I've also never understood the reticence regarding speed cameras on Aldermans' Hill. This is a real trouble hot spot and Enfield police have said they've no interest in speeding offences, a camera would prevent a lot of speeding and do the police's job where not.
PGC Webmaster posted a reply
27 Nov 2018 16:07


Here's a photograph of one of the planters marking the boundary of the quieter neighbourhood - uploaded to Facebook by Cllr Daniel Anderson. Located in the Mall near the Cherry Tree, this is one of four being installed at either end of the Mall and Selborne Road.

The positioning of the planters in these two streets will be experimented with before installing the rest of the planters shown on the map of the quieter neighbourhood. Most should be in place by Christmas and the rest of the quieter neighbourhood measures will be implemented in January.

Link to the Facebook post and comments
Larry Roberts posted a reply
28 Nov 2018 14:44
Looks like the Selborne Road (Fox Lane end ) planter has come into contact with a moving vehicle already ?
Darren Edgar posted a reply
28 Nov 2018 15:46
It's huge and in plain sight - some drivers are absolutely shocking!!
Neil Littman posted a reply
29 Nov 2018 09:58
Don't think placing a planter like that on a blind bend (on The Mall) is very practical. Also saw a school coach trying to get through the space last night. The correct way to reduce the speed of vehicles entering the roads in the QN area is to narrow the carriageway and install a chicane with priority signs or speed tables as they have on the side roads along Aldermans Hill. However this would cost the council a lot more money to install.I am not even sure of the legality of the planters. If I were to apply for a skip in the same location the council would require lights. As for painting the planters black and not having any reflective stripes that is incredibly dangerous.
Maire Harris posted a reply
29 Nov 2018 10:35
It's not just about reducing speed - it's about also reducing the volume of traffic entering these roads. Why would a school coach need to travel down the Mall when there is no school on that road??
Darren Edgar posted a reply
29 Nov 2018 11:33
Spot on Marie! You've nailed the whole point of this!! What school could it possible have been serving that couldn't have been reached by a main arterial route (A or B road)??!

Good point regarding the need to reflective paint on the planters, but this is really no other excuse for hitting them. The "blind bend" issue - you have to peer round the corner for oncoming traffic anyway, only a reckless driver would whip round there without looking, therefore that's driver error and, ergo, a moot point.
Adrian Day posted a reply
29 Nov 2018 14:00
It looks as if there is some reflective material on the edge of the planters? Having said that it's very worrying if people feel they may hit the planters in their vehicle because they are black and don't have reflective material - many (most?) pedestrians crossing at the same place will be in dark clothing and without reflective strips. And they will be moving.
Darren Edgar posted a reply
30 Nov 2018 09:39
Neil Littman wrote:

I am not even sure of the legality of the planters. If I were to apply for a skip in the same location the council would require lights. As for painting the planters black and not having any reflective stripes that is incredibly dangerous.


Saw footage from the Mall site yesterday evening (by Cherry Tree) and that white sign on the front with the speed limit on lights up like a christmas tree when lights hit it.

Therefore as long as drivers aren't driving along at night with their headlights off, there'll get a huge bright reflection back at them making the planter impossible to miss.
Colin Younger posted a reply
30 Nov 2018 10:19
"...making the planter impossible to miss"? Hopefully easy to avoid! Not many laughs in this thread.
George Georgiou posted a reply
30 Nov 2018 14:23
I have no objection to traffic calming but these planters are spectacularly ugly. Also the very large reflective sign is an oxymoron. It should read "KEEP OUT OF OUR STREETS" The planters are certainly not welcoming. Also, having seen the beasts I foresee major problems for large vehicles that have legitimate reasons to be in the road, where the planters are placed at the entrance. Lorries have a very wide turning circle and often have difficulties even where there are no obstructions. In particular, has the Fire Service even been consulted? I would have expected at a minimum that there would be some testing before implementation. A phased roll-out is no substitute.
Colin Younger posted a reply
30 Nov 2018 17:05
See the traffic flow figures for the Fox Lane QN

This browser does not support PDFs. Please download the PDF to view it: Download PDF

It's amusing to see that six hundred more cars exited Old Park Road than entered. Only a fraction of that number could have been parked before the monitoring period. Perhaps there is a secret car plant there.
George Georgiou posted a reply
30 Nov 2018 19:34
Of course I may have mischievously misinterpreted the data. These roads are all tributaries of Fox Lane (apart from Fox Lane itself). The description says" the information shows origin and destination data". So the IN column shows vehicles (presumably all types of vehicle) entering Old Park Road from Fox Lane and the OUT column shows vehicles exiting into Fox Lane. Or perhaps the IN column shows vehicles entering Fox Lane from Old Park Road and the OUT vehicles leaving Fox Lane and going into Old Park Road.
Who knows? The table's sloppy language does not help.
Adrian Day posted a reply
30 Nov 2018 19:42
I also found those columns confusing, George. My guess is that the 'in' and 'out' refers to entering and exiting the QN area - so in OPR's case it's the junction with Alderman's Hill. Either way, well over 2000 vehicle movements up and down a residential street in a 12 hour period is shocking. And from direct observation (including with a Met Police speed gun) many of those vehicles are speeding, some excessively.
Karl Brown posted a reply
01 Dec 2018 08:40
The data is vehicle count entering / leaving the area, ie the Fox Lane QN boundary rather than individual streets. The grey cells are streets which do not have boundary entry / exit points and hence no relevant count; whereas eg Meadway and Devonshire have entry / exit at both ends and so their in / out figures broadly tie up, net of parked cars in the main. Other streets, OPR being the used example, have only one end as an entry / exit point. The data refers to that, not the total number of vehicles passing through the street. (OPR as the used example is roughly 50% higher on a total traffic 24 hour basis.) What it is possible to conclude is that there are significantly more vehicles leaving OPR at the park end than enter at the same spot - that’s the rush hour tidal effect, cars going southbound in the morning; many have long used a different route to get home in the evenings. Others reveal they are little more than a rat run – Amberley, despite being an entry / exit point at only one end, has figures pretty much equal in both columns, that’s because the vast majority of vehicle trips using Amberley are non-residents / stopping at the households there. Nothing new here.
George Georgiou posted a reply
01 Dec 2018 15:14
Thank you Karl for giving some meaning to the numbers. It shouldn't have been necessary. I still see an anomaly with the numbers for Devonshire Road which is one way and has a single entry to the QN area and one exit. There is limited non-residential parking there yet apparently 37 more vehicles entered than left during the 12 hour period. (I presume this was 7am to 7pm to cover both rush hour periods)
Darren Edgar posted a reply
03 Dec 2018 09:20
George Georgiou wrote:

I have no objection to traffic calming but these planters are spectacularly ugly.


It's winter.

Presumably when it's spring/summer they'll be overflowing with beautiful flowers.... Personally am happy to reserve judgement till then.
Darren Edgar posted a reply
03 Dec 2018 09:25
Having driven round the area a bit this weekend now, both Friday evening ("rush hour") and Sunday afternoon quiet time, these planters aren't causing the devastating traffic issues mooted by some. Cars back up a little but then go through fine.

The ones placed almost behind the existing road entrance narrowing seem pretty redundant but the Mall, Cannons End, is an absolute corker. And contrary to concerns - it's been placed perfectly, not round a blind bend but right on the apex. It's clearly visible as early as going round the mini roundabout and never disappears from view. Combined with the bright white reflective panel, bad driving is the only reason it should ever take a knock.
Elaine Hall-Freeman posted a reply
06 Dec 2018 08:33
Why bother complaining? You know the Council will do as they jolly well like, regardless of anything we say. You don’t have to be speeding to come in contact with another vehicle or the planter. Not every driver lives in the area. That corner has always been tricky, regardless of speed. Try waiting to get around the corner while one of the many big 4x4s hog the road. As for the colour? I can just hear our illustrious Councillors, “Paint it dark! The more contacts, the more ammunition for our plans to rid Londoners of their cars altogether! Ha, ha ha!” The ‘Machine’ gets their way again!!!
Neil Littman posted a reply
06 Dec 2018 09:01
The point I was trying to make the other day was not whether a school coach was supposed to be travelling on The Mall but that other large vehicles are very likely to use the access points such as delivery lorries, removal vans, bin lorries etc etc. and all of them will have problems at some stage. The other day a delivery van was parked by the corner of the Mall which was unable to park in the slip road by the shops and is now faced with the obstacle of the planter. Issues like this actually make congestion worse not better unless you want the local shops to close down because deliveries are too difficult to make.
Adrian Day posted a reply
06 Dec 2018 09:26
The goal of QNs is to rebalance the streets in favour of pedestrians, cyclists and the people who actually live in the houses within the area - not to ease congestion. Indeed some initial congestion at the entrances will (hopefully) dissuade rat runners. If it makes it slightly harder (but not impossible) for big vehicles to enter then that's a price worth paying.
David Hughes posted a reply
09 Dec 2018 00:09
Adrian Day hits the nail on the head in his explanation of the goals for QNs. Personally, and as another resident in the Fox Lane Quieter Neighbourhood, I’m delighted that steps are being taken to improve quality of life on the estate, and that as a consequence of that kids may be able to get some of their freedoms back. Our QN is not yet as good as it should be, but it is a step in the right direction which could be improved in future.

But the exchange, originally prompted by Elaine Hall-Freeman – whose intervention was unfair to the Council because it had changed quite a few of the proposals for the estate at the request of residents – prompts the memory that QN’s are part of the cycle lane plan for the A105 Green Lanes. Without them, with all their new rat-running disincentives, living on an estate along Green Lanes would probably have become intolerable. (Protection of residential areas in this way is a strategy adopted in at least one other European country which has installed cycle lanes).

The Green Lanes cycle-lane project reflects the need to curb the dominance of car-culture with all its greed for space, its emissions and dominance of the streets. No wonder the government (Conservative)found £100M for cycling, and the then London mayor, Boris Johnson, distributed it to three councils, of which Enfield was one.

The background issues for residential areas are space, air quality, quality of life, and in that context it should be noted that speeds close to 80mph have been measured in the Fox Lane area. That sort of behaviour has to stop, indeed speed above 20mph has to stop, so that residents can meet and greet in the streets and children can cycle in safety.
Darren Edgar posted a reply
10 Dec 2018 16:47
Elaine Hall-Freeman wrote:

Why bother complaining? You know the Council will do as they jolly well like, regardless of anything we say. You don’t have to be speeding to come in contact with another vehicle or the planter. Not every driver lives in the area. That corner has always been tricky, regardless of speed. Try waiting to get around the corner while one of the many big 4x4s hog the road. As for the colour? I can just hear our illustrious Councillors, “Paint it dark! The more contacts, the more ammunition for our plans to rid Londoners of their cars altogether! Ha, ha ha!” The ‘Machine’ gets their way again!!!


Interesting post. Have you read anything in this thread?! During the day they are no darker than an average car, or, wait for it, pedestrian crossing the road; and at night they are bright white and impossible to miss unless negligent.

What do the police, highways agency and highway code all say about driving in "tricky" conditions? Slow down! Take your time and drive at an appropriate speed when you have sufficient control of your vehicle. If you are an incompetent driver and can't help but crash into things , you are to blame, not street furniture.
Chris Bushill posted a reply
13 Dec 2018 10:05
Disagree about The Mall planter. Support the principle but feel it obstructs entry to shops and makes the crossing much more difficult for pedestrians especially people with children going to school in the morning (me). Think the planter would be better placed after the entrance to the Cherry Tree car park.

PS Shouldn't it say 'Not welcome in our street'!
Darren Edgar posted a reply
13 Dec 2018 10:25
How does it obstruct entry to shops? It's not outside any?

Can see it being a tricky corner to cross on, though never ideal, whilst moving it further up the Mall would make crossing easier (back to normal) I think it would make the planter/its purpose redundant.
Darren Edgar posted a reply
13 Dec 2018 11:04
Chris Bushill wrote:

makes the crossing much more difficult for pedestrians especially people with children going to school in the morning (me).


Just thinking, (whilst Council may never want the cost, hence this cheapo solution), but wonder whether the footfall would be sufficient to justify a zebra crossing??

Would make it a LOT safer to cross and also act as a bit of a traffic calming measure. Aid connectivity to the parade from the resi areas to the north too - possibly to the added benefit of encouraging walking/cycle as opposed to short car trips. Ditto towards the schools further south.
David Hughes posted a reply
13 Dec 2018 21:38
Interesting that David E. has tentatively suggested a zebra crossing because the Council is to trial a similar suggestion for the The Mall/Amberley Road junction, with a view to creating a zebra crossing on all the Fox Lane junctions. Personally I'm not sure I want all that white stuff on the roads because I feel that the place where you live should be as visually attractive as the setting will allow, but if we can persuade drivers to form a slow driving habit in QNs perhaps its worth a try.

To me its amazing that any driver can think its appropriate to exceed 20kph ( I use the metric figures because its slower than 20mph, but also because it is the country's official system) in a purely residential area leading from nowhere to nowhere, but maybe the increase of areas like this plus the presence of kids on the streets will eventually create different driving habits
David Hughes posted a reply
23 Dec 2018 20:39
This morning noticed that the Planter at the Fox Lane end of The Mall seemed to have been hit by a vehicle or vandalized. I couldn't take a good look because I was driving; not something I do very often. But since it had been moved quite a bit I'd guess at 'being hit'.
David Hughes posted a reply
01 Jan 2019 15:24
This morning discovered that the Planter at the other end of The Mall (Southgate Green) had been moved quite a bit; in fact in much the same way as the Planter at the Fox Lane end. Following close inspection it seems certain that they both had been moved (by being hit by a vehicle?). Meanwhile a steady flow of cars was passing along the street and across to Amberley Road.
Darren Edgar posted a reply
03 Jan 2019 12:51
Yes, went through the Mall (and Selborne) yesterday, Mall definitely looks to have shifted Southgate Green side.

Must be impact as they must weigh a tonne, be very hard to move otherwise. Just another useless driver I'm guessing. They are easy to say and not hard to work around unless you are reckless.
David Hughes posted a reply
03 Jan 2019 21:36
What I felt in both cases (but see my final paragraph), having cycled by and paused to take a good look, was that a driver had swung into The Mall on the assumption that the carriageway would be clear, and didn't have time to brake or change course significantly. And if this was the case presumably both drivers were willing to assume that no pedestrians would be crossing The Mall just out of their sight when driving up Fox Lane or entering from Cannon Hill; The Mall junction is particularly hard to see around when going North until you are on it.

With that in mind I put this behaviour in the category of driver sense of entitlement which is all too common in terms of speed and a general expectation that everything will be done for them, or pedestrians will be the ones taking care. Hopefully a lesson will have been learned.

One strange thing about these two happenings is that there is no visible sign of collision except that the planter had moved in the direction you would expect if it was a collision. I've therefore wondered if they'd been deliberately moved, but if so the mover was a very powerful person.
Däna Roberts posted a reply
03 Jan 2019 22:17
I thought that they are being moved by the council to try out different positions in the roads to see the effects they have?
Darren Edgar posted a reply
04 Jan 2019 10:03
Their position is skewed which looks more like impact (or deliberate interference) rather than the Council testing a different configuration.

I think, but could be wrong, that what the Council is talking about is moving them backwards or forwards and more or less into the carriageway.
David Hughes posted a reply
04 Jan 2019 17:27
Took a bike ride down The Mall this morning and both planters were back in position. On my return home an hour or so later positions for more planters were marked out notably on Ulleswater Road which is an access to my home.

Watching cars entering streets with planters to see how drivers are coping I was struck by their caution; for the time being at least the planters are doing their job. But of course once past the entrance, and with a long sightline the speed may be different.
Neil Littman posted a reply
22 Jan 2019 15:45
Thought it worth posting this document on the site as this shows a much more considered approach to siting planters (and other ways to slow down traffic) without causing potential accidents.

www.sustrans.org.uk/sites/default/files/images/files/migrated-pdfs/Technical%20Note%2031%20-%20Obstacles%20in%20highway.pdf

I think with the present siting of the planters is dangerous and possibly illegal and will only get worse as the council continue to block the roads. If you look up the subject online, nearly all the legislation is about the ability of councils to prevent residents placing obstructions on the highway including skips and other obstacles not the other way round.

I know one of the people involved with the scheme in Oxford shown on the Sustrans document and it was very effective and no people or cars were damaged in the process.
Darren Edgar posted a reply
24 Jan 2019 09:35
Those planters look lovely, but are more decorative than functional - I can't see how any of them would fit a purpose for a safer streets/quieter neighbourhood traffic reduction scheme.

PS: "illegal"? 1. What basis? 2. Do you not think the local authority would have cleared legal first...?

Current planters don't damage "people of cars". They are unmoving inanimate objects. They're huge and in plain sight so if you drive into them that's your fault! Haven't any issues navigating them myself....
Neil Littman posted a reply
24 Jan 2019 09:58
David,
Hi, the council have a record of making changes to the area using experimental traffic orders so they are not always acting legally and tend to implement first and sort out the schemes later using TMO's. Haringey by contrast do things by the book. The schemes in the Sustrans documents did work and made a massive difference to Oxford and other locations and are still in place and also look a lot more attractive and part of the urban landscape. It doesn't take a lot to make motorists aware of a change in the roads to alter their behaviour. Enfield council's actions are as the saying goes, 'A sledgehammer to crack a nut'.
David Hughes posted a reply
24 Jan 2019 21:02
The planter at the Fox Lane end of Selbourne Road has been shunted inwards as were all the others.

What I think about drivers who swing into side streets such that they hit something out of sight on a purely residential road is not printable. These streets are for living not driving thrill, thoughtlessness or impatience.

I live one street down from Selbourne and this morning I was privileged(?) to see a large, low, blue car streak past our front window at an enormous speed. I won't guess at a figure, but several years ago the Council measured speeds above 70mph on the Fox Lanes estate and this car looked like that. That is driver sense of entitlement with a vengeance

Because I've stepped back from campaigning I have no real grasp of what is planned for the estate, but I suspect it will be rather puny, and not fully tailored to the needs of a residential area - kids should be able to learn to ride a bike here.
Adrian Day posted a reply
29 Jan 2019 13:53
I see that the Quieter Neighbourhood is on the agenda for the Fox Lane Resident's Association AGM on 6th February. I'm already double-booked but it might be worth going to hear the update note from the Council and comment as necessary?

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