Forum topic: Six new trees for Palmers Green Triangle

Karl you do not have to visit to inspect to see what I am talking about, I was born and bred in Palmers Green and I still reside in the area so I know for a fact there was no elevated platform, to visit a area of concern says it all only those that remember how it was before all this new cycle lane performance know how much safer it was as pedestrian crossing the roads now its cycle lanes colliding with pedestrians and people getting off the buses etc, now matter how you look at it, cycle lanes are not been used they have wasted taxpayers money and made into a danger zone no thought for others has been put into it, they've been given this huge heap of money and they could not wait to make a mess of it as usual, that's what they do in the UK, and there's nothing Great about Britain because those managing our areas are always doing it on a poor budget it looks glum and uninviting a couple of trees with brickwork, shops and buildings are in a poor state we have a galore of supermarkets, bookies, kebab shops, nail bars etc, there's no vary of shops no imagination no sparkle theres only so much of the same we can only take, it's very upsetting that it has all gone downhill for Palmers Green.

Oh by the way just have a look at Colin photo showing no elevated platform.... you cannot get away with the before and after showing no safety pedestrian crossing has not been considered unfortunately it's all about cyclist who do not hardly use them, in Winchmore Hill we have mothers with pushchairs that use them instead and stationary cars attached to the cycle lanes nothing makes any sense.

Life eh, Joe, what a chore it must be.

I’m talking a guess what you have been referring to is the change from the small mid lane Pedestrian Island outside Iceland to what is now a traffic light / vehicle control barrier-island, with a new, much safer, pedestrian dedicated crossing about 20m to the north, fronting Holland and Barrett – also without barriers. People do of course choose to cross wherever they wish.

Karl you really must check on your wording... talking a guess?? take a breathe it's all the excitement about how you call it the... elevated platform.

Yes your right Karl life is a chore when you have people in the world like yourself that find the less able amusing and make fun off, it's not surprising Palmers Green has gone downhill as those managing the area do not care less, it's unfortunate that we have people working for the Council that get paid very well that have shown insensitivity, no ideas and no imagination no wonder cyclist are colliding with pedestrians and ending up in fights on our streets due to the irresponsible cycle plans, no thought of pedestrian safety is never put in anything, only to complete it and leave it sloppy, no wonder Enfield Council has a terrible and shameful reputation

Those vacant shops started with the cycle lanes, people particularly those with children and many others are far too scared to walk in the area as the roads have been made very dangerous to cross......they are losing a huge amount of revenue due to their very bad planning decisions in the area .....due to damage influence and incapability, Councils need to change and down size drastically to make them much more affordable to run which will also help build the broken relationship with their residents...

Why should the less able go elsewhere to cross if they want to get to a particular shop, so your saying they should go further away to get to where they want because the road plans of the Council are ruined to just put in meaningless cycle lanes and throw away billions in the bin that's what the UK is good for taking taxpayers money and making rubbish.

By the way Karl I have friends who have parents that are in wheelchairs who find the roads very discriminative towards their needs...

Karl B. has very sensibly opened another discussion about the look and improvement of Palmers Green now that the installation of the cycle lanes is nearly complete under the title of "Our Green Lanes - saved". There he pointed out that money is to be spent on town-centre regeneration as part of the Mini-Holland developments. I suspect it could be argued that the comments I'm about to make should be made in that discussion, but I have possible change of mind to raise which seems more relevant to this discussion.

But first things first: should the cycle lanes along the length of Green Lanes not have been installed in the first place as Joe Mark O'Conner says? Well Joe, we have congested roads, terrible air quality leading to illness and death on a grand scale, a dreadfully under-exercised population and kids deprived of their freedom. There really had to be a change, and there'll have to be more of it - the plan was to encourage drivers to make short journeys on foot, by bike, or public transport rather than by car.

Time will tell whether the plan has worked, but I guess that after a period of selfish rat-running by motorists it will.

On the issue of crossing the carriageway I think it will become safer as people get used to the new arrangements.

Now to my possible change of mind, which is about whether cycle lanes on the pavement are a good idea through town centre areas.

I wasn't involved during the key development period of the cycling plans so I didn't know it was going to happen, but I probably wouldn't have objected at that time because I've seen them work in cycling terms in Germany. Now, and looking at them as a cyclist, I've found that pedestrians are becoming used to them and already tending towards staying on the pavement space. You might say: "Well and good if it's a move to cycling is what you want.", but as a general principle I think town centres should be social space, and cyclists flitting by must make that more difficult, posing the question: " Should another way of facilitating a cycling renaissance been thought about?" Perhaps it was for all I know, but we have what we have, and ways of persuading drivers out of their cars had to be found. High numbers of cars in cities are not a sensible solution city to transport problems because of the space driver-only cars need.

The death of traditional high streets in the way you describe is a significant problem not attributable to our Council or any council, but to the development of buying on-line; it's happening everywhere. But as Karl said our Council has plans to do what it can with money set aside for that purpose. Now it's up to you, Karl and me, with others to do what we can to help with that endeavour.

Here we can see the new, all ages and abilities friendly, crossing; and only three shops away where there is no longer an engineered pedestrian crossing point. That same position now has a specific mid-lane disincentive to cross with eg a pram or wheelchair. Definitely safer crossing 20 metres to the north.

Photo evidence seems to resoundingly prove what is, in fact, a completely moot point.

Thank you, Karl.

FYI, Joe, EMH was TfL funded so you don't have to worry about your tax pennies & pounds. It's not money that could have been spent any other way by Enfield Borough Council as you have to specifically apply for the funding and spend it on a 'mini holland' cycle infrastructure scheme.

I look forward to cycle home on it tonight as always.

PS: EMH has nothing to do with retail closures on PG high street. Nothing

So if the cycle lanes as you say are not the problem for shop closures then what is...because Waitrose closed and moved to Winchmore Hill because there was new built properties and they felt they were best suited in Winchmore Hill as it has been given more of a makeover and Palmers Green was a embarrassment.
I wrote to them to ask them to stay as I am a fan and they wrote back saying that their shop was more suitable in Winchmore Hill probably because they saw and felt Palmers Green was not a positive area to represent their upmarket shop...which I loved it made the area feel and look much more pristine and gave it a lovely feel to the place...
It is a shame though that some shops move because of the poor state it has become and a embarrassment for shop-owners not wanting to situate their shop in the area...and that speaks volumes.

I love my area and I would like to see a more sophisticated and welcoming feel and one of the main problem that lets the area and residents down is the poor looking shops if this was all made new then hopefully we would get shop-owners wanting to open in the area and bring a variety of new items and not have the same repeated shops i.e supermarkets , bookies etc, I think we have more then enough of these that lowers the tone.

Waitrose closed because it's business model requires larger/weekly shopping trips, not drop ins, therefore it moved to where it could have it's own dedicated car park.

If EMH was the problem - how do you explain Waitrose relocating to another store right on the EMH cycleways?!

MultiYork has gone because it went bust. Nothing to do with EMH or, indeed, PG.

Starbucks left because it's lease expired. Note how small a unit Costa operates from in comparison. A coffee shop cannot sustain as much real estate as Starbucks was occupying therefore the store's P&L wouldn't justify a renewal.

I agree that bookies, mini-markets, nail/hair salons etc all lower the tone. But only consumers can determine sustainable demand for alternative product offerings.

And EMH should encourage more local shopping. As would increase housing density which is so often resisted.