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Forum topic: Found in the Town Hall: the "Palmers Scream"

Found in the Town Hall: the "Palmers Scream"

Martin Jenkins

16 Apr 2015 10:37 #1160

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Garry, happy to oblige!

The reference in Chaucer is from the Canterbury Tales:

“And whoso fyndeth hym out of swich blame,
They wol come up […]”

It’s a little hard to tell in the Middle English, but whoso is a quantified expression, like whoever, that is syntactically singular, but then is paired to the syntactically plural they.

The website:

englishbibles.blogspot.co.uk/2006/09/singular-they-in-english-bibles.html

has a full list of singular usage in the KJV, Tyndale, Geneva and other English bibles.

P.S. My academic friend has just got back to me. I will edit her reply and will post it here later today!

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Found in the Town Hall: the "Palmers Scream"

Basil Clarke

16 Apr 2015 19:12 #1162

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Martin Jenkins wrote:

The reference in Chaucer is from the Canterbury Tales:

“And whoso fyndeth hym out of swich blame,
They wol come up […]”

It’s a little hard to tell in the Middle English, but whoso is a quantified expression, like whoever, that is syntactically singular, but then is paired to the syntactically plural they.


Yes, the -eth ending shows that "whoso" is definitely singular.

Another interesting point is that "they", "them", "their" etc arrived in English during the Middle English period as imports from Scandinavian languages. The Old English plural pronouns were insufficiently distinguishable from some singular forms - they all began with "h", if I remember correctly - so the Scandinavian forms were used instead. But I think that Chaucer himself uses the old forms sometimes and the new forms on other occasions. It wouldn't be surprising if some people got confused and started using the new "th-" forms instead of singular "h-" forms - an example of hypercorrection, I suppose.

I'll be very interested to read what your academic friend thinks.

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Found in the Town Hall: the "Palmers Scream"

Martin Jenkins

17 Apr 2015 09:30 #1164

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So, there were witches in Winchmore Hill!

I received the following e-mail from my good friend Dr Susan Devereux, who is a lecturer in Early Modern History and specialises in witchcraft beliefs and trials of that period:

Obviously, without seeing the documents, I cannot say if they are genuine but I must say that they have the ring of truth. Your area of Middlesex had a reputation as a hotbed of supernatural activity in the Early Modern period. Most famous, of course, is the Witch of Edmonton: the witch in question was Elizabeth Sawyer, executed at Tyburn in 1621.

There are many other records of witchcraft accusations and trials in Middlesex… [I’ve omitted a fairly lengthy list here. MJ]

Most excitingly there is a passing reference to ‘the witches of Wynsmorehyll’ (Winchmore Hill) in an undated chapbook called The Most Wicked Worke of Wretched Witches.

Unfortunately there are no further details given about them. The chapbook is probably late 16th / early 17th Century.

I will do some more research, going through county records, assizes etc. etc. to find out more about your local witches. I’ll keep you posted!

P.S. The ‘charm’ against witches given in the manuscript is fairly elaborate but is not unheard of – off the top of my head I can think of at least three other rituals of a similar nature. It would be interesting to know if there were any other finds on the same site: shoes or ‘witch bottles’ were often built into walls as protection against witches.


Obviously, this is a tantalisingly brief reference but hopefully Dr Devereux will turn up more. It doesn't of course prove that the Town Hall documents are contemporary but it does suggest that there was a local tradition of witchcraft beliefs.

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Found in the Town Hall: the "Palmers Scream"

Karl Brown

02 May 2015 11:15 #1190

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Flicking through Baskervilles old photo books this morning over coffee I find number 12, Yacht Lake, ie the boating lake. It’s very clear that the surrounding trees at this stage are NOT willows and more strangely there appears to be several adults dressed as children in what is quite a large crowd. And then there is the bizarre colouring. What is going on?

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Found in the Town Hall: the "Palmers Scream"

Karl Brown

20 Jun 2015 00:27 #1317

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I spent Friday evening with my neighbours, Diane and Patrick, after the Palmers Scream documents simply appeared on one of the walls in their Baskervilles Tea Shop. Not a Police issue – no break in, nothing taken, rather the opposite – but the Council Press Office did send a photographer who documented pretty much the whole building, outside and in.

I was finally able to talk to Professor Owen Davies, specialist in witchcraft and ghosts, who had apparently been examining the material earlier in the week. He hadn’t seen the pieces for a few days having been away from the office. One rumour was they had been at Walker school late this week but no one was sure. CCTV drew a blank, just going fuzzy before and after the appearance.

A sign we all wondered, but if so, of what? I’ve no idea, nor have Patrick and Diane. For me it was certainly interesting to see what all the recent comment has been about. I took a photo.




I don’t think they have any intention of touching them for a while. Maybe hoping they’ll simply disappear the same way they turned up. Any ideas anyone?
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Found in the Town Hall: the "Palmers Scream"

Alex Woolf

20 Jun 2015 06:34 #1318

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I can say with reasonable certainty that these documents were at Walker School as late as Thursday morning, as I delivered a talk about them to a classroom full of excited and awestruck children. The event was covered by the local press, and photos were taken, so hopefully a picture in next week's Advertiser should authenticate my story. As to what happened to them after that, my memory gets a little fuzzy...

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Found in the Town Hall: the "Palmers Scream"

Karl Brown

07 Sep 2015 12:27 #1550

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Fantastic PG Festival but the Handbill has gone! Just when the sun went down behind Broomfield House casting its shadow onto the Scream stall it was no more. Not in Baskervilles - where it was borrowed from for the event. Nowhere that we can find. Photo below before it turned up framed in Baskervilles.
All help needed on this one.


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Found in the Town Hall: the "Palmers Scream"

David March

12 Sep 2015 11:36 #1570

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People were so busy watching 'Ghostbusters' on the bowling green last week that no one noticed what happened to this tree by the boating pond (somehow captured by official ghostbuster, Barbara).


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