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Forum topic: Unblocking the pavement outside the Fox

Unblocking the pavement outside the Fox

PGC Webmaster

02 Aug 2023 18:56 #6918

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[Original article]

A combination of the loading bay outside the Fox, the tables and chairs out on the pavement and vehicles parking on the pavement has on more than one occasion not left enough room for people using wheelchairs or pushing wide baby buggies to get up Fox Lane. How could the pavement and road be redesigned to stop this happening?

car and lorry blocking pavement near fox palmers green 1

lorry blocking pavement near fox palmers green

When the loading bay outside the Fox is occupied and when someone parks on the pavement nearby (a sadly frequent occurrence) there are only narrow gaps for pedestrians to pass through and nothing like enough room for a wheelchair or a wide baby buggy

It's great to see the Fox full of life, surrounded by flowers and its customers spilling out onto the pavement, but the current design of the public realm on the corner of Green Lanes and Fox Lane is proving problematical for pedestrians, and in particular for anyone who needs enough clearance to get through in a wheelchair, mobility scooter or a big baby buggy. The location of the delivery bay that's set into the pavement (is it meant to be used by cars or just brewery drays?) and the cycle stands often doesn't leave a wide enough space to get through. And the unfortunately frequent but presumably illegal use of the pavement further up as a delivery bay (why not just park lorries in the road, there's plenty of space?) combined with a nearby lamp post has the same effect a little further on.

It's clear that the pavement and road here need a redesign, though much will depend on how much of the pavement actually belongs to the pub and isn't a public right of way. Here's a suggestion posted on Twitter by @PaulObrienArch incorporating rain gardens (also referred to as SUDS - sustainable urban drainage system) to screen the tables and chairs on the pavement.

suggested improvements to pavements near fox palmers green by paul obrien

Possible design solution: Remove 1 x parking space on Fox Lane, add inset loading bay outside pub, Add rainwater gardens on both sides of junction, add continuous crossing or zebra crossing, remove barriers erected by pub as SUDs features will screen seating zone from road.

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Unblocking the pavement outside the Fox

Darren Edgar

03 Aug 2023 09:12 #6919

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Nothing needs redesigning. Waste of money. All we need is enforcement and that pays for itself.

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Unblocking the pavement outside the Fox

Ediz Mevlitt

03 Aug 2023 10:22 #6922

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We should remove all parking from the entire fox lane and create a tram from Southgate to Edmonton …. Win win

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Unblocking the pavement outside the Fox

Karl Brown

03 Aug 2023 11:13 #6923

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Rather than suggest the inevitable (hundreds of?) millions on a new tramway from Southgate to Edmonton, why not simply use the W6? A bit more regular at times would be good but otherwise it works fine.

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Unblocking the pavement outside the Fox

Karl Brown

03 Aug 2023 11:14 #6924

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The area was discussed at the last PG Ward Panel but primarily regarding litter and damage to the grass verge from contractor’s emptying the bin storage area. This resulted in the council erecting the two metal posts now in situ and a seemingly good outcome.
The pavement space was briefly discussed, and, by memory, The Fox own the sliver of roadway outside their (licensed) chair/ table area, so can, and do park, on it. There is a throughway issue which may be a better one for the ward forum but if not I’ll agenda it when the panel next meets in September – useful since Fox management are on the committee.

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Unblocking the pavement outside the Fox

Darren Edgar

04 Aug 2023 17:07 #6926

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Karl Brown wrote (message 6923) :

Rather than suggest the inevitable (hundreds of?) millions on a new tramway from Southgate to Edmonton, why not simply use the W6? A bit more regular at times would be good but otherwise it works fine.


Ediz is only saying that because it aligns with his socials and silly campaigning to date. Removing parking is nothing to do with benefitting anyone but purely a matter of bitterness at the LTN and the perception wealthy Lakes residents park their 5 SUVs on Fox Lane whilst it is now all nice and quiet.......

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Unblocking the pavement outside the Fox

Ann Jones

05 Aug 2023 16:43 #6928

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Isnt it priceless though how Enfield Council actually sold off the original pavement to the developers! It belongs to the developers ? No mention is made of moving the underused cycle racks outside the pub further up the street although removing a parking space across the road is somehow helpful? Has anyone tried to stop the two cafes on Devonshire Square from putting tables and chairs on the narrow bit of pavement on Green Lanes forcing pedestrians onto the cycle lane even though the Council gave them a huge outdoor space on the Square and paid for their tables and chairs? I feel it is a very selective focus to devote an article to this pub which is a community asset whilst ignoring other businesses that have problematic use of the pavements for far longer.

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Unblocking the pavement outside the Fox

Karl Brown

06 Aug 2023 18:31 #6929

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The development certainly went up to the previous Fox boundary but no further and I’m not aware of any public realm having been sold to the owners / developers. Can you clarify what / where, ideally with evidence, if I’m to take forward. If alternatively it’s an urban myth then best we stop it now.
The spit of pavement supporting the bike-racks narrows into Fox Lane to such an extent that their removal will not be a pavement solution.
Issues relating to Table and Chairs Licenses for the two Devonshire cafes look ideal to be considered as part of the wider review of the new square after its trial period.

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