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Forum topic: Council proposing new active travel route through Palmers Green

Council proposing new active travel route through Palmers Green

Andrew Smith

16 Apr 2023 08:04 #6823

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Thank you for your response Basil.

You state:
"Andrew surely doesn't think that the only purpose of the M1 is for it to be used by people driving the entire way from London to Leeds? In the same way as drivers use shorter or longer stretches of the M1 as part of millions of individual journeys, people walking or cycling will be using sections of the new route as all or part of many different journeys."

I agree with your point entirely Basil. People use the infrastructure between two points, I get it.

"While I agree that few if any people would follow the whole route on foot, that's not true of people riding bikes, for instance people living in Southgate and working at the North Mid (plenty of NHS workers ride bikes or would like to if it were safer) or other parts of Edmonton or Tottenham, or students travelling to the College of Haringey, Enfield and North East London in Tottenham."

Why, therefore has the number of cycle journeys increased at such a pathetic rate since the Fox Lane LTN was introduced? The Enfield council data shows one-way journeys only increased from 8 JOURNEYs to 24 JOURNEYs with a 24 HOUR period - this suggests 4 people doing a round trip before, to 12 people after (and I think we all know some certain cyclists who might be individually responsible for the entire increase....by doing laps)


As you said "Speaking as another resident of Palmers Green, and also "with respect", I have walked from my home not far from Green Lanes to the Cambridge Roundabout and beyond on multiple occasions, not for leisure but to get somewhere - mainly to get to the North Mid, but sometimes just to explore the area beyond on foot."

I understand that (and your very understandable reasons for doing so) I also understand your point about using the bus prior to the LTN "I often have to travel to parts of Southgate, mainly around Southgate Green. Prior to the LTN, I would mostly use the bus, because the huge amount of traffic along Fox Lane and the need to cross junctions took away the pleasure from walking"

We've seen bus times increase since the LTN, so I cannot blame you for not choosing the bus anymore, as travel times have increased for the bus (due to LTN traffic). Furthermore, if you already walk within the LTN area, where there are now less cars, what does this new scheme do to - materially - improve things (whilst not diverting money from other, more needed initiatives to improve safety along Wynchgate/The High Street for example)? What is wrong with using the pavement to walk as 99.9% of people nationwide do? I think I would agree that the paving slabs ought to be sorted out (some are a trip hazard), but do we need an official "walk route" in addition to the LTN when there are other, IMO more important uses for the council's money.

One might DRIVE to Cockfosters/Trent Park or down the A10 to green areas round Lee Valley if they were in search of a nice place to walk.


I often go to those places for a walk, they're easily reached by public transport. And getting there by public transport is better than driving because you don't need to do a circular walk - for instance, I can get the bus to Enfield Lock and then walk through the Lee Valley and Epping Forest to Chingford, where I can catch the bus back to Enfield. Closer to home, I can go to Oakwood, walk through Trent Park (the southern part near Oakwood is very tranquil, too far from the car parks, I suppose) and then follow the newly created route through Enfield Chase and end up at Chase Farm Hospital, from where I can easily get home by bus.

I agree with all of the above. What does the walk way do to assist with that (whilst being mindful of existing infrastructure)?

But there are some excellent walks from PG, eg following the Pymmes Brook through Broomfield Park, Arnos Park, the Waterfall Walk, Brunswick Park to Oak Hill Wood nature reserve. For a shorter walk, there's Grovelands Park within easy reach.

Excellent, agree entirely

There's absolutely no need to drive and contribute towards the looming climate disaster to go for a nice walk.[/quote]

Understood, get the bus, I am with you there. Shame, however, bus journey times increased due to LTN displacing traffic onto other roads
governance.enfield.gov.uk/documents/s91038/PL%2022.072%20P%20-%20Appendix%201%20Post%20Scheme%20Monitoring%20002%20-%2026%20JAN%2022.pdf
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Council proposing new active travel route through Palmers Green

PGC Webmaster

18 Apr 2023 23:42 #6825

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The deadline for submitting views and ideas via the interactive map has now been extended until 30th April.

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Council proposing new active travel route through Palmers Green

Adrian Day

19 Apr 2023 12:54 #6826

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You do know Palmers Green Community is run by one dedicated and committed individual who devotes a huge amount of time each week to writing and sharing helpful content, supporting local organisations? And that just about every online and offline publication in existence has an editor who writes editorials giving a point of view? Not sure why Basil should take lectures from anyone on what he can and cant do with his website.

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Council proposing new active travel route through Palmers Green

Nicola Scott

20 Apr 2023 07:27 #6829

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As often a pedestrian (not a car owner and over 65)I feel prompted to say that I really appreciate the introduction of Cycle lanes. In my experience they have increased flexibility in the use of space. People commonly walk in them, yes that needs to be mindful and managed but it isn't like walking in a space of cars. They have meant cars are further away from pedestrians and after decades of proximity to unaddressed pollution that is a relief. Crossing side roads is safer and calmer as drivers are less likely to assume right of way.
I can't say I have noticed much change in hold ups for buses. As usual the congestion comes from cars, with or without Cycle lanes.
I really want to see cycle lanes succeed. Cycling shouldn't be something we teach children only to have a culture that tells them tell them not to use the skill outside of being a leisure activity. It's healthy and cheap and benefits society.

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Council proposing new active travel route through Palmers Green

Darren Edgar

20 Apr 2023 11:29 #6830

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Ann Jones wrote (message 6821) :

What is fascinating is the lack of evidence to support the claim for cycling in LTN yet the Council wants to plough ahead with this scheme. The Fox Lane LTN proved that 1. Cycling increased more in the wider area where there is NO LTN than in Fox Lane LTN and 2. cycling on boundary roads increased substantially more than in Fox Lane LTN. Meanwhile PG cycle lane counts remain stubbornly low. Flatlining at best. The reality is the Council doesnt have the evidence to support further expenditure on cycling infrastructure. The Council should focus specifically on pedestrians and bus users as these are by far the most used form of sustainable travel. Cycle infrastructure unfortunately often comes at the detriment of these two groups by reducing pavement space for pedestrians and introducing cycle lanes in front of bus stops putting bus users in danger, plus delaying buses in the extra congestion.


That graphic shows an upwards trend FYI.....

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Council proposing new active travel route through Palmers Green

Darren Edgar

20 Apr 2023 11:32 #6831

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Lots of predictable responses. All in advance of any actual details.

It will be a load of rubbish I bet. So a fuss over nothing. Bit of paint on the ground for cyclists, which drivers will ignore, and the odd sign and walkway for pedestrians which won't actually make the route any more pleasant to walk.

No segregation. No filtering. No point.

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Council proposing new active travel route through Palmers Green

David Beadle

11 May 2023 06:14 #6852

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Unfortunately that's not how strategies to change behaviours work Karl. And the DfT has had the evidence for this for over a decade (I should know - they paid me to provide it).

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Council proposing new active travel route through Palmers Green

Karl Brown

11 May 2023 09:36 #6853

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David Beadle offers me guidance. I was installed at the bequest of a major UK body to run what was then Europe’s largest behavioral change programme, so I’m a little more clued up than most on such things but I’m always willing to learn yet can’t relate your guidance to anything particular on here. Perhaps you can assist.

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