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Forum topic: Plans for Fox Lane low-traffic neighbourhood published

Plans for Fox Lane low-traffic neighbourhood published

Graham Bennett

18 Nov 2019 09:08 #4927

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I'm keen to see a scheme of this type trialled, but I want a well run trial that has the best chance of success, otherwise we risk more hostility and polarisation of views. The information provided by the Council can, at best, be described as superficial. I hope they have researched this properly and will share the details with residents. In particular I'd like to know what they have learnt from similar schemes elsewhere:

  • Has there been a reduction in traffic volumes in the quiet areas; has there been a reduction in speed; has there been a reduction in pollution levels
  • What has the impact been on the surrounding area for congestion and pollution
  • What provision has been made for refuse lorries, large delivery vehicles and emergency vehicles. What are Enfield's plans for Fox Lane; will entry for these vehicles be allowed (to avoid them having to reverse out of the area) and if so is it just on a basis of trust?
  • Has there been an issue with residents finding somewhere to turn in the road; if this is difficult/impossible then the only option is to drive over the pavement where there is a dropped-kerb, which is hardly consistent with keeping the pavements safe
  • How does the size of existing quiet areas compare with the Enfield's plans - the larger the area the greater the impact on the surrounding area (particularly Southgate Circus) but arguably it will cause a greater reduction in number of car journeys

    • I'd also expect the Council to show us traffic projections for the area itself and for the surrounding area (difficult to be too accurate here but there should be some attempt to calculate figures to check if it's even worth doing a trial). There should be fewer journeys using a car, but these journeys will generally be much longer both within the area (because of the need to drive the the 'exit' end of the street) and because of the detour around the outside of the area (eg 2.5 miles for me to get to PG station rather than 0.5 miles now). On balance, what does the Council think the net difference will be in miles travelled?

    We really need to learn from other's experience before blundering into a trial. And I'd hope that more details of the plans would allow a more informed debate about the proposals. Let's press the Council for these details before they start the trial.
    The following user(s) said Thank You: roger dougall, Peter Doble
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    Plans for Fox Lane low-traffic neighbourhood published

    Darren Edgar

    18 Nov 2019 11:28 #4928

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    Helen Masacz wrote:

    I'm against this idea of redirecting traffic from the Lakes as the families who live on Fox lane, Oakfield road and Bourne will take the brunt of the pollution. why is that acceptable?- They're streets wont be
    Calmer & quieter
    Safer neighbourhood
    Greener and cleaner environments and air
    Improved public realm
    Increased physical activity
    More connected. It seems it's for the few and not for the many. it smacks of entitled few wanting all the positives and dumping the rest on others.


    Because they chose to live on A or B roads? Benefitting from the cheaper house prices which that entails...
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    Plans for Fox Lane low-traffic neighbourhood published

    Darren Edgar

    18 Nov 2019 11:30 #4929

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    Helen Masacz wrote:

    Not sure how cars can speed down roads on the Lakes, they have speed bumps along them. In my view set a speed limit of 20- job done. We don't live on a private estate, we live in a busy suburb and the natural flow of traffic trickles along our roads (that's what roads are for) distributing traffic more evenly alleviating heavy congestion in areas. If Bourne Hill, Oakfield road and the Fox lane become even more congested, why is that fair for the families who live on these roads. it's not.


    Lakes roads don't all have speed bumps. Quite a few don't in fact.



    Recorded speeds are all public record and have been published a few times on this sit. Think 70mph was hit somewhere. Lots over 50mph. Majority over 30mph.
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    Plans for Fox Lane low-traffic neighbourhood published

    roger dougall

    18 Nov 2019 12:28 #4930

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    Summed up brilliantly by Mr Bennett. Modification of this plan is the only way to avoid polarisation of views. Not sue if David Edens point that people on A and B roads should get even more traffic because they couldn't afford to live on the Lakes Estate is a fair one, sounds a little elitist in some ways!

    I'm a bit tired of the citing of excess speed.Using a few outliers of 70mph as an argument is weak, there will always be those who break the law. Somebody was mugged along my road and another house burgled.Does that mean we now close off the roads to people?

    Speed cameras would solve the problem.The main issue is the tiny minority those who want to shut all the roads completely without showing compromise.
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    Plans for Fox Lane low-traffic neighbourhood published

    Darren Edgar

    18 Nov 2019 13:50 #4931

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    roger dougall wrote:

    Summed up brilliantly by Mr Bennett. Modification of this plan is the only way to avoid polarisation of views. Not sue if David Edens point that people on A and B roads should get even more traffic because they couldn't afford to live on the Lakes Estate is a fair one, sounds a little elitist in some ways!

    I'm a bit tired of the citing of excess speed.Using a few outliers of 70mph as an argument is weak, there will always be those who break the law. Somebody was mugged along my road and another house burgled.Does that mean we now close off the roads to people?

    Speed cameras would solve the problem.The main issue is the tiny minority those who want to shut all the roads completely without showing compromise.


    I presume you are deliberately mis-construing my point. It is a statement of fact that traffic on A and B roads is higher than unclassified roads. That is the purpose of them - to funnel traffic. If you choose to live on an A or B road then you accept that you are living on a less quiet road than a cul de sac, for example.

    You know what I'm sick of? Road traffic accidents. And people dismissing speeding like hurtling along at 50mph outside a child's house is just ok.

    As for compromise, the planters were a compromise. But bad drivers drove into them and idiots and morons vandalised and moved them.
    The following user(s) said Thank You: Adrian Day
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    Plans for Fox Lane low-traffic neighbourhood published

    Adrian Day

    18 Nov 2019 14:14 #4932

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    Not a few 'outliers' Roger. Have a look at the shocking speed and volume stats for the Fox Lane neighbourhood

    betterstreets.co.uk/low-traffic-neighbourhoods-faqs-facts
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    Plans for Fox Lane low-traffic neighbourhood published

    Adrian Day

    18 Nov 2019 14:16 #4933

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    There's been nearly 20 years of debate, surveys, consultations and so on. Now it's time to stop guessing and see what happens with a trial.

    betterstreets.co.uk/low-traffic-neighbourhoods-faqs-facts
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    Plans for Fox Lane low-traffic neighbourhood published

    Adrian Day

    18 Nov 2019 14:18 #4934

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    They represent the many who want noisy, polluting, dangerous rat runners off their streets. At last the Council are listening to the people.
    betterstreets.co.uk/low-traffic-neighbourhoods-faqs-facts/?fbclid=IwAR2fqh9ok6_iq2jI4uJaXv99UccCpwGs2JnV7-vuL7XgnB3Tah0tmp7Y5yo
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